Ep 28: Does dog park = cess pool? How to safely enjoy the dog park!

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

dog park, dog, vaccine, vaccinated, veterinarians, vaccinate, jason, vaccination, people, vet, pet, rabies, talk, tick, protected, infectious disease, risk, respiratory, martin, area

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This episode is brought to you by full bucket veterinary strength supplements, the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses,

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Merck animal health, the makers of Nobivac vaccines. Welcome to chats with the chatfields, this is a podcast expand your idea of what impacts veterinarians, pet owners and basically all animal lovers in the galaxy as humans, and we are your hosts, I'm Dr. Jen the vet, and I'm Dr. Jason. If you have not yet subscribed to our show, why not? Just go to Chatfieldshow.com And subscribe today. If you want to reach us and you've got a message full of love and positivity. You can find me at Jen@Chatfieldshow.com

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And for all of you other folks who just want to keep it real You can reach me at Jason@Chatfieldshow.com

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Okay, welcome into the chat room, everyone. We we have a great topic today. I'm not sure. I'm not sure quite how the Convo is gonna go. But we're gonna be talking about dog parks. Jason, have you been to a dog park?

01:16

I have. I have been to a dog park. I know you're shocked. But I have been to several dog parks.

01:22

Did you take a dog?

01:23

I know. It was somebody else with their dog. It was working.

01:28

Were you lurking? Oh, no, no, no, I

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just didn't I just didn't. You know, I I've had a couple of dogs, right. And they're great. They just weren't always nice to other dogs. And I didn't think that was a great situation. So I'm sure we'll get into that later. But yes, I've been to, I would say several different variations of the aforementioned dog park.

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Okay, well hold that thought. We're gonna get into the Convo here. So we have a super awesome guests. So my friend and our colleague, and she's a smarty pants, Jason. I really like I hope you have, as she says the Googler

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I have. I'm ready. I'm ready to roll whenever she uses nine syllable words I got. Oh, she's so

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smart. So we have my friend and board certified veterinary internist. Dr. Dawn Martin joining us. Hey, Dr. Martin.

02:21

Good. Hello. Thank you for having me. I do have the Googler just in case.

02:27

You don't need the Googler I need the Googler Sure.

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And she's got the glasses to make her look smart. Oh, how was very good. Doesn't need that. Wait, just wait till she starts talking folks because she doesn't need anything to make her look or sound smarter. He just is okay. She

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is so very much.

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Yes. Okay, so we're going to talk about dog parks Avi because that's what I was asking Jason about. And first of all, let's just like lay out on the table. Let's just lay out what each of us really thinks of the concept of and we'll I guess we'll we'll look shall we lump in doggy daycare? Also? No, or? No, we shouldn't know. Okay,

03:15

the dog parks?

03:16

Only only dog parks. Okay,

03:19

I'm gonna I'm setting the rules down. We can't have too much stuff lumped in because then it starts to be if then whatever. Whatever's I don't understand when restrictive.

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Really what's happening today that Dr. Jason is setting the rules. Do you get that?

03:32

The police That's right. About dog parks. Different than doggy daycare. I might have nothing.

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So what she's saying in a nice way as they're wanting to do from the north is I'm Jason. I'm on Team Dr. Jason. You're very wrong. But she won't. She won't. She won't replay it. That's exactly what you said.

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It is true. It's true. Roll the tape. That's right. That's right. Ah, for everyone not following the inside joke. Before we came on. We were discussing the fact that people should stop lying in general, because someone has it on their cell phone video. Okay. Yeah. So, alright, so we're just gonna focus on dog parks. Okay. Thanks, Dr. Jason for the boundary setting. And so what do you like? Dr. Martin, what do you think about dog parks in general? Like the concept of dog parks?

04:30

That's a good question. So I would, I guess I think of dog parks as being a place where you can go to have doggy exercise. The bad thing, the bad good about everything. Yeah. So my and that's okay, I'm gonna step out for a second after JSON from your rules, where doggy daycare. There's a little bit of rule associated with it. And then there's a little bit of structure and there's ability First somebody an entity to say you can use to control the population. Okay, cool cleanliness, there's a grown up control, and then to control the effect. So the population that comes in, are you vaccinated or not? The cleanliness how often they're cleaned. So therefore, the infectious disease risks are very different in a dog park versus a doggy daycare. So that's how I look at it. So doggy daycare and dog parks have both the same set of positives for social interaction. But you have a lot less structure to a doggy dog park. So you have to be an advocate for your dog safe.

05:42

Alright, I have to interject and have one more rule. Okay. Every time you say every time you say the word positive, you have to say positive because we're talking about dogs. It's just a rule on in the chat room. Sorry, we didn't carry on. All right, good.

05:59

All right. Okay. I don't know who this guy is. That's on with us today. Hey,

06:07

I'm trying to show off for the new bear. That's pretty much

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he does. He does. opinions.

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I feel judged over my shoulder here.

06:16

That's right. That's right. He's watching. He's watching. Okay, so yeah, so I you know, what's interesting is that dog parks, and this incredible craving in need for almost constant socialization, and social interaction for our dogs is relatively new, in my estimation, right? Like, I think it's been only been going on for, like, 10 years, maybe. Okay, maybe 15.

06:47

What does that mean? What do you mean, going out? They've never had they didn't have dog parks in the 80s? Is that what you're saying? Like, I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're saying it's

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like, it wasn't? It wasn't really a thing? I don't,

06:57

I think the argument could be made that pets in general, especially dogs were treated a little bit differently than right, they were treated, not as much. And I don't know, I'm just saying I would say it's also because of the Google we can see more about dog parks. Right. There's just more information out there. So I have no idea if they were way back when we went to vet school, right. A long time ago, there was absolutely dog parks over there. But I don't know if that's because of the vet school there with? I don't know.

07:24

Yeah, we did not have dog parks. But we did have areas that were on unregulated dog parks, where I went, so I was me, it was basically an area that yeah, it was big fields. But you would take all the dogs, so they just have all the time. But they Yeah, that was a group that you had to get together with. Walk into a large group of dogs that you don't know. Which, you know, has good and bad. Well,

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and there we get into this situation, right. So like, for dog lovers out there that are listening, we're gonna kind of break down what what the risks are and, and if and how you might safely be able to, you know, take advantage of the dog park down the street for your, for a family member. But before we do that, we're gonna take a short break. So on the other side of the break, we're gonna talk about, is it safe to take your dog to the dog park? And if so, how do you do that? How do you do that? All right, hang on, we're coming back.

08:38

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Hey, pack listeners, your continuing education code for this episode is see see 220009? Okay.

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Oh my gosh, there's a doggie park near me called barks to riches.

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Okay, obviously we're back in the chat room, Dr. Jason had to get barks to riches out there.

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That is a funny, funny name. It

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is funny. Okay, so All right. So if I have a new puppy that I want to show off, because it's also kind of social for the owners. Right? What like, so can I take him to the dog park? Is that like, when is that appropriate? Or is it ever inappropriate? Because, you know, they start to dog up, and they're not as cute by about like, what, six months or something? And I take them to the dog park before that.

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Gosh, I think that if you had five different specialty groups, and that you asked, so if you had a behaviorist and an orthopod, and the internal medicine, mainly, right, mainly interested in infectious disease and AI world, then everybody's gonna have a different answer. So with and then, of course, the vaccine, folks, I mean, ologists. But I think that the most important thing that I worry about is having a protected from the diseases that are going to circulate in the population that you are going to be involved in. So and then that will vary, right? So it varies depending on how the mommy dog was vaccinated, right. So we don't know the love of these dogs or rescue dogs. We don't know what their moms are vaccinated for us. We don't know how their vaccination status is we don't know if they were vaccinated for unless we test everybody get, you know, in a baby, every, every little we puppy doesn't need to be tested for every disease. So I would say this, I often defer back to my regular beds, but definitely till they get a full set of vaccinations and the full set of vaccination is such a can of worms, because they're right, it's a really, there are smarter people than me out there that are talking about this every single day. And I put out a really fairly recent that in 2014, I believe, and that world vaccinations have changed a lot of change a lot of how we look at vaccinations, maybe we do them earlier, maybe we do them more often. Because we don't know about the moms maternal antibodies, which are gonna in fact impact how the vaccinations will be, or the vaccines that you give the maternal antibodies, mom's antibodies are actually going to make them less effective. So right eat better. So right, so we better know, or we're going to vaccinate them more often. So, I thought this is fascinating, actually, because some of the smarter people are saying earlier more often. And for a complete set, but then the flip side is you need to know, this is the other part of the big

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thing can of worms, right

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can of worms, is that you need to know which vaccines are core and what which vaccines are not.

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Ah, wait, wait, wait. I think did like did we ban that phrase in the chat room already? One time, Jason.

13:48

At least one and I think we made shirts about it, right? Yeah, we

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had shirts about like, no. So let's

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talk about why.

13:59

Okay, okay. Right. Okay. So listeners, listen, listen. So there's there's this thing that some veterinarians were talking about called core vaccines. And so and then there's non core and core is used by some veterinarians to mean, specific vaccinations that every dog that's alive should have. Yeah, it's just a blanket thing. And then noncore is like, what some veterinarians consider to be optional. Okay. But not optional.

14:28

Right? Is that what they're not really optional if you change if your lifestyle is such that you need it,

14:37

right. And so but for me, so this is reason like I banned the term core vaccines chat room is because every every vaccine recommendation or every Yeah, vaccine recommendation for each pet should be made based on that pets individual risk. which is largely based on their lifestyle. And so if they're at risk for it, that's no longer non core for them. It's core for them. And so I feel like that core core for who? Because, you know, and so so for me I, because I feel like those vaccine determinations should be made with a risk assessment for every single pet. So there is a core i love to.

15:32

We call it bespoke, we call it bespoke vaccine protocol. That's what Dr. Dr. Jin's bespoke vaccine protocol. And get it. I like that word. Right. It's a great word. So yeah. Customized vaccines for your dog, because even in the same area, different owners lifestyles will dictate different vaccines. Correct. Right.

15:54

Right. And the other thing is that I, you know, I rail against paradigm, right, I just I because we become complacent. And so for me,

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rail against paradigm.

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Well, well, Doctor, doctor, so Dr. Dawn, I mean, in our career, like alone, we've seen, like multiple shifts in the understanding of infectious disease agents, and how they're transmitted to our pets and to us. But the problem is, like, it takes a while for people to embrace that. People, I mean, veterinarians, because they don't, it's, it's hard to keep up with all the changes. And so once you learn something, you got to, you know, to get to unlearn it, and then learn the new stuff. And so let's just avoid that those that complex. And let's just say, hey, guess what? Make an assessment based on that dog's lifestyle?

16:53

Yeah, perfect. And that's exactly it, because core and non core are only in is just for our vaccine. Manufacturers, right? Because everybody, because it will be easier if you bundled together some of the vaccines, and you'll only have to go to the to the, to your visit once and get injection. But you're right. And that's the point is that for anybody that's going to the dog park with the risks that we have a lot of the noncore is on your bespoke animal. Yes, that scene plan. And I don't want anybody to think that they should not have a leptospirosis vaccine, if you're going to adopt park that's coated in water.

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Thank you. Thank you. Boom, right there.

17:43

Right. So that's not that's core for every every dog that has access, and that's most dogs and the lifestyle, which is most of the dogs that are going to the dog

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park. Right. So just

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just for instance,

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right, just as a for instance. lepto. Right. And yeah, and I but I feel like there's so many veterinarians in in, you know, Doc owners who are afraid of lepto vaccination. Yes. And that again, that's part of an old paradigm. Right? Talk about hard to change,

18:19

right. That's an excellent example. Mindset, right. So

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it's, it's yeah, it's ridiculous. But, but if you if you are data driven, which I know my friend, Dr. Hart, or Dr. Martin is, so if you are data driven, then if dogs go to dog parks, right, there was that paper out of Arizona that said the risk factor, and low prevalence areas was hanging out in dog barks. So you 100% should be vaccinating that dog for lepto on an annual basis. You know? Yeah. So let's agree to agree on that one.

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Yes. We can use the bespoke terminology.

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The only thing really wrong with an email. Yeah, is the terminology. Right? Because it it kind of pigeonholes everybody into thinking one thing, and it's not, I don't think that many people I think almost every veterinarian and every every client that you have will understand if you just take the three minutes to explain. Listen, you do this so you need these they don't core is this easy to talk about. But But Dr. Jin doesn't like easy. She likes truthful. And so we'll go with spoke. And everything's going to be a little bit different for each for each dog and dog dog. Absolutely. But we were talking about going to dog parks as we got up into this vaccine. Oh,

19:38

oh, yes. Yeah, initial question that we can get, which I you know, I like tangent. So I think that you can definitely go to Dochart safely. If you have a dog that that has appropriate behavior, right because not the some some dogs don't interact well with other dogs when that sometimes because they have had bad experiences, and they have not been socialized and it's not their fault, and you can do all the behavioral stuff in the world. And some dogs just don't interact in an appropriate way. They don't speak the language of other dogs

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kind of like people.

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Right? It's not so

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some people are never going to be super socially competent. They can try really hard to desire, right, but it makes them really uncomfortable. And they would just prefer to be by themselves. Yes, all the time. At dogs are the same way. I don't know why we expect every dog to love every other dog.

20:39

I mean, or every dog to love the dog park because sometimes there's just so much for them to to interpret in their world too much. So if they don't like it, then then they're not good dog park candidate. But I think back to the basics, infectious disease wise, we definitely have to make sure that our dogs are covered for especially like respiratory viruses. Because that whole respiratory virus like nothing is going to go through the dog park like

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knows like heaven. Heaven, right dog park is like heaven. Yeah.

21:14

For respiratory everything. Well, we have to make sure that our dogs vaccinated because we can't vaccinate the world of dog parks.

21:23

Great. Correct. Well, that's the other thing is that it's a little bit like going to the beach. Right? Like as a human. If you go to the beach, they can't disinfect the beach for you. So guess what? Put your towel down first. Okay. Lay directly on the beach. But people don't like so I like if you get Listen, listeners, if you get nothing out of this podcast, get this. You have to protect yourself and your dog when you go to the dog park, because dog park is not going to protect you.

21:58

No, no. Yeah. And you shouldn't have to. It's crazy, right?

22:02

I love the word spiritual. It's

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forgotten. Yeah, no, I'm just gonna say that one more time. Right? He's Canadian

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is

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sorry. So sorry. Okay. Yes.

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Right. So, um, so if we talk about respiratory or respiratory infections, and the dog, right, because I'll tell you from an infectious disease standpoint, and people ask me in general practice about like, Hey, can I take my dog to the dog park? I'm like, No, it's the cesspool of the world. Don't take your dog, right.

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I mean, you could take them there once.

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Right? That's one time. That's it, let's start really an appropriate approach. Because it is like it is good for like sociological things, and you want to take the pet. And so I agree. They have to be protected, right. And eight week old puppy is not a good candidate, as you say, because they're not finished with their, quote, Puppy shots, the series, it's not one puppy shot. It's not two puppy shots, it's at least three sets of puppy shots, at least three. And what you're telling me now is it may be more. But you know, a couple of weeks after their last set of puppy shots, so like between 16 and 16 and 18 weeks, they can go to the dog park and they should because now I think what do they say? Like if you want him to be comfortable with stuff, you got to introduce it to their world before they're 20 weeks old.

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So it's a tight, it's a tight window for socialization to protecting the minor off and which is of course everybody's sort of conundrum and especially with di Natale they take your stack JSON but like dog training, right? Oh, yeah, a bunch of puppies. It's all puppies. But that's a bit more controlled. So it leans into the non speaking of Dr. Jason's rules, that's a bit more of a controlled right environment where you can disinfect a little bit right in between.

24:09

So what's the what's the risk for respiratory virus? So if I go to the dog park, because you mentioned lepto, you mentioned respiratory device?

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Are you are you now Canadian doctor? I would just assimilate in less than a minute and

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I just feel like it's fun to say

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more.

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It sounds so much fancier. Okay, so what like what what are my risks? How can I you know, besides vaccinations So, and okay, so let's first talk about like, how are you going to prepare your dog before the dog park? So you're gonna get him vaccinated for lepto which is a bacterial disease that they get from contaminated water, soil, dirt, other dogs and wildlife, basically, anywhere they go. And yes, you have lepto where you live, I don't care where you're listening. I mean, except Antarctica, but you're not in Antarctica, listening to us. Do you have a three live? What about respiratory viruses? We can work out we have we can, what are we gonna vaccinate for? How are we going to do that? Well, there

25:09

is. So there are some that you can vaccinate for, and some that you cannot, right. So there is there used to be the dogma of the respiratory complex was that there was just a few viruses and bacteria. So there was Bordetella. Right, which we all vaccinate, but what are not all it's a part of the bespoke vaccination program. So,

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dogs for social,

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which every dog is social.

25:38

I beg to differ

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because that's a dog to dog transmission. I have.

25:44

I have a dog snot social.

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Okay, so maybe your dog doesn't

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know. But she lives but she lives with other dogs.

25:55

I wasn't arguing boards, I would just say in social and she would she would cringe if someone told her, Hey, you're a very social dog,

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but her housemates are and they'll bring it back to her. Of course.

26:05

Absolutely. That's right.

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Exactly. So can you want to have your routine? Can we call it routine? Okay, base. Basic, what are we going to call it our general puppy shots? Right? Right. So we're gonna get all up. We're gonna get the adenovirus and then probably you're gonna get parainfluenza in

26:25

there. Yes. Right? Yes, you must have pair influenza otherwise known as the glue that holds together their canine infectious respire disease complex families.

26:37

Also become excited you hear influence?

26:42

That's right. She did. She did get excited. I've never heard of called that. But

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Dr. Pretty Yes, very cute. Yes, but data, but data tells me that

26:55

right? Because it will influence your immune system. So it makes you more at risk for all the other viruses. So, I mean, whatever way you want to vaccinate for parainfluenza nasally. Right.

27:10

I love Up the nose.

27:12

If the dog the upturned nose is great, because it's gonna get all that local immunity. How exciting is that? You don't have to give it another injection. I love it. Right? Yeah. Not that I vaccinate anything.

27:28

But you know, but you see the outcome of not vaccinating.

27:33

I 100%. See the dogs that go from a bland and boring upper respiratory tract infection to the next thing you know, then they have pneumonia, and then they have an actual pneumonia. And then they're sick. So those are the guys that I see. And you know, worst case scenario, especially in the little stuffy nose cute dogs. Like some of us have been those dogs might get worse pneumonia, right. Yeah. So they can be oxygen dependent. So I Yeah, I'm a big proponent of getting the pair influenza glue. I love that.

28:07

Did you make that career? Yes, for real. I mean, it's not respiratory, but well,

28:15

you know what we all have to have?

28:16

Well, you did call it the respiratory complex glue. So use it in the same sentence. Oh, oh, I'm paying attention.

28:24

For one. Yeah, she's on the scoreboard.

28:28

That's right. Love it. Okay. We're gonna vaccinate for lepto we're gonna vaccinate for adenovirus. We're gonna vaccinate for a pair influenza. Talla. Yep. And, okay. And then the other big gorilla in the dirt. Right, Parvo. You should is that part of those ubiquitous also? So, yeah, get vaccinated for Parvo?

28:54

Because that's silly. That's just silly. It is. It's just silly. It's just silly, silly not to write bad life choice.

29:01

And then what about? We haven't mentioned distemper?

29:06

Oh, probably good.

29:08

which scares? Yes,

29:10

we are in the vaccine for December. Right? Yeah, we're gonna do that. Yep. Often early, early, maybe often.

29:20

More often, you said earlier,

29:23

maybe more often, which is actually just to prevent it. So that I guess the more often ideas just so that we don't see that break through. Right. It's the it's more cautious just means it has to be in there more that in there at the vet. So and then we haven't talked about flu.

29:45

Flu, a slew in the

29:48

next meeting means yes, so of course, if you're at a dog park, no matter where you are, I would strongly encourage Are you talking to your veterinarian about a flu vaccine? I don't know if I have to say anything else?

30:06

Well, yeah, I'll just add two little nuggets to that, right. Because, like, our listeners already know about my love for the influenza. But influenza, if you're if your dog is vaccinated for Bordetella, kennel cough, then your dog should also be vaccinated for influenza. Because the risk factors the

30:32

same same same risk factors, your favorite things?

30:35

It is right. So, secondly, how's about just go ahead and protect yourself too, and talk to your medical provider about whether or not you can safely receive an influenza vaccination as well. Yeah, I'm not recommending that that would be illegal, because I don't practice on people in this country. But I would recommend talking to your provider, because you're gonna see other people. And you know what people do on days when they don't feel good enough to go to work because there's normally Snuffly. Well, they make use of the day by taking their dog were to the junk Park. Oh. My gosh, that is so true. So true. Yes, true. It's true. So, while you're out there with all the other snarkily, Snuffly folks, you want to make sure you have your influenza vaccination as well. So, yeah, I totally 100% agree with that. And, okay, so that is a lot of vaccination. Well, is it too much? Is it too much? Can the dog die from over vaccination? Can they die from? Have you ever seen that one of the symptoms look like for that?

31:51

I so does do get? I would qualify by saying that you can have side effects from vaccination. Naturally. Yes, you meet dogs, cats? Probably raccoons. I don't know. I've never done it. But I'm sure any species could have a vaccine reaction, y'all ever the risk benefit analysis would say that we're gonna vaccinate for all these things. However, we're not gonna say all these things all the time, you're gonna go to your base, both provider. And that provider is going to say, let's do this one, once every three years. Let's do this one once every year. And it's going to be on the basis of the vaccine characteristics and how long that vaccination is going to produce a new immunity and brand is well documented, and getting better documented, which I'm super excited about. So a lot of our vaccines are now good for longer. And most of the vaccines are a lot of those vaccines that we talked about can be can be every three years now. I mean, obviously the ones that are more bespoke are yearly, but there's nothing wrong with going and hanging out. Once a year.

33:07

Oh, you definitely should go see your vet once a year because it's leftover. Yeah, lepto vaccine, the respiratory bacteria.

33:19

Xe or the telas? I can't know

33:25

waiting for a mycoplasma vaccine, but mycoplasma is tricky. Yes, sir. Yeah, but anyway. Yeah. So but but I guess I should be like more clear about my question. Jason, do you understand what I'm asking about? Like,

33:39

oh, no, no, it was it was like, a such a long time ago with the question. I have no idea what the question was asking. My

33:46

question is, because clients ask all the time they're say, Well, if I vaccinate him for

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X, Y, and Z, X,

33:57

Y, and Z, and now you want me to add some time? Well, no, not even at the same time. Like let's say you break them up, right? Because we do know it's a risk factor for them being more lethargic, more sore cetera, just like if you get a whole bunch of vaccines on the same day, right. We do know that it's a risk factor. But just vaccinating, even if you split them up for W X, Y and Z rather than just XY and Z. Isn't that over vaccinating? Oh,

34:29

okay. So I think I answered the question. So, the question is, if you have is more going to increase your risk for the side effects, or is more is is there a point at which more becomes too much? And the answer is no, there's no threshold for a number of vaccinations because every vaccine triggers a different response. Different cells make different antibodies, whichever however, it does, everything does a different job.

34:57

Right. So we do not worry about In humans, we don't say, oh, no, you've already reached your limit lifetime. vaccines. Yeah,

35:05

that's it never worked out before, right. But but people

35:08

do that all the time with pets. And they'll say, Well, I really love taking my dog to the groomer. But you're saying I have to vaccinate them for flu. But they already get all these other vaccines. I'm worried about over vaccinating. And I like I'm like, and what does that look like? Can you show me the paper where a dog died? adverse reactions are different. That's different. It's not the same thing, people where a dog died from over vaccination. No, you can't because it doesn't exist. There's no inherent risk beyond side effects, which we can mitigate. Right? So

35:41

come up slowly. Yeah. And I guess I don't hear that. So that's, I think a general practitioner who hears that every day. Or maybe you want some Ma? Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunate. Thanks. Thankfully, I don't usually have people who say that. But I do also say that I do have people who want to do less vaccination, which everybody wants to do less vaccination. Well, yeah. The people who make the vaccine protocols, everyone wants less vaccination, if it is safe to do so. Right. And it is, if it's safe and documented that the immunization is going to be appropriate for X amount of time, then vaccinate your dog extra. But also, don't under vaccinate. I would definitely take my chances with over than on that one. Because I see a lot of dogs with lepto. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's in peaks. young pigs, right. That said, I might have vaccinated for lepto

36:53

Oh, cuz that the farm fresh Frenchie. She was vaccinated when she was eight weeks old for lepto.

36:58

Yes. Yes. Because done. Yeah.

37:01

Because I have provided care for $25,000 Husky. And he was a $25,000 Husky because he had to go on dialysis. Because when he was like, less than a year when he was less than a year old, he was not vaccinated for lepto. And he got leftover.

37:18

Oh, wow. So yeah, and

37:21

I'm like, unless you want to pay for a $25,000 Husky pay for the $25 vaccine, vaccinate your dog. Especially if you're gonna go to a dog park. Okay, so So that's kind of,

37:34

or really anywhere. There's other dog, we keep saying dog park, because that's what we're talking about. But really anywhere, there's gonna be other dogs of unknown, you know, vaccine situation, right? Just just talk to your vet, get the dogs protected. It's a simple, it's a simple and smart and smart thing to do. So.

37:51

Okay, so that's the kind of the immunology approach Right? Like we can first before we go to the dog park, we're gonna do that. So now we're at the dog park. Okay, so behavioral aside, everyone listening in the chat room behavior is this we're setting that aside. We're presuming everyone is angels. What are the steps we can take to make sure that our dog has the lowest chance of bringing home a new pathogen friend and infection from the dog park while we're there?

38:27

Routine? That's a good question. And I think that, that perhaps it's very basic things but things go a long way. So if you see a dog that has obvious snarky ease coming out of

38:43

there, right in the first place, you shouldn't

38:45

be there. But not everybody says My dog has has had parents wins. And I'm going to be taking the dog out of the dog park for four weeks. Right. Does that right? Yeah, no, not everybody does. Most of us do. So you avoid those dogs? I mean, as if they have things hanging out of plague. Yeah. Because they do. They do have glue. Nose glue, nose goo

39:15

right. Yeah, it's gonna be glue.

39:17

And so you do that you avoid any place where they're standing water. You try to not know puddles. No puddle. No thinking couples ideally. Right? Okay, water kinda gross. kind of gross. And and then obviously, you know, obvious things are watching your dog at all times that they're not doing something silly like eating feces. Because they sometimes do

39:44

they do. They gotta taste everybody's poop. They

39:47

do. That was a bit nasty, but and they're going to keep they're no they're going to sniff each other. Right. So there are some things we haven't talked about. That are not respect Right that are also going to be passing around the dog park. But I don't know that that's within the scope of our like our talk today.

40:06

But I'm totally fine. Are you talking about Yeah, parasites, whole gi

40:11

parasites. Some like the doggy Mercer, right? Dog parks, some muscle and resistant staff food staff, intermediates is going to be hanging out in the butt because that's where it hangs out and the nose, there's no there's no forsaking that

40:35

that's a fecal nasal route, the lesser, lesser known.

40:40

That's where it, that's where it hangs out. So sadly, they're gonna pass that around. And hopefully you never have to deal with that. But there are lots of things that they're going to going to have exposure to what can you also just want to keep their exposure down? Yeah. I don't know. Do you have any other

40:58

big? Well, there was there was a survey and don't worry, folks, we'll put links to these papers. But so a great colleague of ours, Dr. Susan Liddell at Oklahoma State, yes, she did a wonderful she, she is good times. She's a great person. And she loves dogs. And so she worked with a team to do a survey of dog parks and parasites because she's parasitology just and she discovered that hey, guess what, there's a whole lot of parasites hanging around where dogs congregate and poop. I mean, it doesn't really matter how much you pick it up. It's still there. Yeah, so having your dog on routine prevention, you know, the monthly preventatives, I think is very wise as well, and getting an annual physical exam done at your veterinarian as well. And then also, we didn't even mention this. If like, if you're at the dog park, and you see a dog, I mean, or maybe a person to Jason, if you see a ratty looking dog. Are you going to like want to run up and pet that dog?

42:17

Usually, it's my first option is to run up and pet and scratch and sniff. That's usually what happens. Oh, no. Yeah, of course. Of course not. That's not what you what you want to do. I think I think all this boils down to is a little bit of common sense. stuff, but it's worth mentioning, all these things that are so called common sense, because we all know it's not super common common, right?

42:39

Yeah. Yeah. So I think the Ecto parasites, right, like fleas and ticks. So you got to have them on good prevention if you're gonna take them to the dog park, because most dog parks in my experience,

42:50

have you there? Yeah, they're there. Yeah.

42:54

You know, there's woods and stuff, right. You know, like the no leash park that used to take Daisy best dog ever. I used to take Daisy to I would never see another dog. But there's there was lots of woods. And so she would be off the leash and running around like a fool. I mean, there's ticks, there's ticks. Yes. Yeah. So I think that's appropriate to mention, as well.

43:20

Maybe ask your veterinarian if you're, if your product covers ticks, because some of them don't. Right, right. And pointing is easy enough to say, you usually only need sleep or bitch and but if you are a dog park aficionado, then you probably do need a tick prevented.

43:39

Yeah, yeah. So do you see tick borne disease? Often in your practice? Doctor?

43:45

I see some I see. I definitively see some I probably see some more than, than most. See some really sick dogs, and some that have positives that have come from elsewhere. Yeah, that have just a positive status of courses is I had I saw that I cleared it, you know, from the Northeast where everybody's seen lime or likea. And then I do see some dogs that are sick with Lyme or like, yeah, I have an activist case of Ehrlichiosis right now. And their prevention people are vention is much easier than seeing me an awful lot and being honest biotics for a month and then another antibiotic for a month. And yeah, you know, so is it harkens back to it would be good if I was out of business with respect to tick borne disease. Yeah. So

44:40

would you recommend Lyme vaccination for dogs who were going to be frequenting dog parks?

44:46

That is a so that's a very good question. So the question is, or the answer is it's part of the DIS bespoke in our area. Oh, still. Yeah, we don't see A lot of love and positivity, but there is some.

45:03

Yeah. Um, and she's in Florida, folks. We're in Florida. Oh, yes. So we're everywhere. Everything goes well.

45:09

Yes. What's very, very, so everything is going to come if it's not here already. So I would say it's one that I don't, I don't recommend routinely. But the we have also have a lot of snowboarders so we have a lot of dogs that are back and forth from the northeast, to here and those dogs are often vaccinated for line because those are going into the heart of it. Yeah. And we know that there is no matter how good their tick prevention is there. It's just everywhere. So it's overwhelming

45:42

exposure.

45:44

So those dogs have the highest risks and then I think is reasonable to consider it. Okay, it's it that was very internal medicine answer. So it still was doesn't really, you know, it's like,

45:57

I'm just gonna hang a sign on my dog to says if you're from the if you're north of the Mason Dixon Line, I don't want to talk to you and my dog. Gonna do like we had to six foot area to stay away from me. I don't want to talk. Jumping from you, to me. I just don't want any of that stuff, right.

46:15

Oh, my chicks don't come by. That's right.

46:18

If you're bringing ticks don't come by. That's right. That's right. Well, I do think it's encouraging though, that with the amount of preventive medicine, I guess, preventive care that's available to dogs these days. They can safely visit the dog park behavior set aside, don't crush us on the internet. But behavior set aside from an infectious disease standpoint, I think they can. And then I know I interrupted you, you were going to talk about water bowls. Early.

46:50

Oh, I mean, obviously, sitting water is still even if it's in a water bowl. It's still standing. It's sitting there. For doubt. You know, get some fresh water if you can.

47:02

I like how you did that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I guess people don't think about that. When you see a community water bowl. You don't have to actually wait till it's empty to try rinse it out and refill it, right.

47:15

Yes. Yeah. It's never going to be sanitized. Let's be real. unless somebody's super keen and is bringing and No, nobody's gonna bring in a disinfectant to the wall. I mean, some people probably might, you know, I might sometime who knows? I'm just kidding. So,

47:35

Dr. Martin lurking around your dog bark for their giant dog. She may have disinfectant with her. Definitely hanging

47:45

out with her and her dog because she know that dogs protected in a water bowl is squeaky clean, and it ties

47:52

the bubbles rolling around the dog

47:56

turned his dog when in the hamster ball.

48:00

Getting great answers that I'm not quite that neurotic, but pretty close. Oh, gosh, too funny. Um, you don't really even have to say about rabies, right? No, no, we don't.

48:15

We should say even though we shouldn't have to say, right.

48:19

Yeah, don't skip. It's

48:21

legally common sense, right? You have to have it, you have to have it. We don't want anybody to have rabies. We definitely don't want dogs running around that are at risk because it's in our wildlife population. So once again, it is still still a thing. It's shockingly still a thing. And then, you know, the one want there's a One Health. Right. So Dr. Chan loves one health event. And so the whole idea with rabies is that I find this fascinating. I'm sorry, no, I'm liking to my thing. So I think it's fascinating that that's a worldwide program, we want to have canine rabies out of the population eradicated by 2030. slightly, slightly, slightly, slightly, under wraps are taking a step back because of the pandemic. But still, I thought I think that's just remarkable that there are people out there as I like to say smarter and wiser than me that are doing that work every single day.

49:27

Right? Well, so. And our friend in front of the show, Dr. Luke Gamble is the founder of mission rabies, who are one of the major players in that eradicate rabies or erase rabies, global movement. And so yeah, so, I mean, it is a thing even in the US people do get rabies. dogs die of rabies. There is no cure for rabies. I mean, it was like seven people or so who lived through it and ruined the statistic, but living through it does help They're there. But it doesn't mean that you're thriving. Like just because you survive in a medical human medical journal doesn't mean you're back to normal.

50:08

You don't want it like it's worth tick, tick. Right. So get your dog vaccinated for rabies. You shouldn't have to say, but we should also always say it right now

50:15

forget about it.

50:16

Right. And don't skip it. Again, over vaccination, not really a thing. So don't skip it. You know, get your dog vaccinated. Also, cheapest vaccine, I think on the market now most effective yada, yada, yada. Get vaccinated for rabies. Okay. So yeah, okay, so those are our two soap boxes. Jason, what's yours? You got one?

50:38

I don't have one. I do have a question about dog parks, though. Right. General question after all of this, all of this discussion, some might be terrified to go back to the dog parks. Is this a valid response? Or not? I don't know. Like, I don't know.

50:58

I would say you can take the tools that you have. Right. And you can have a more make people ponder and be cautious about terrified, healthy fear.

51:13

Right. I would agree. Just know what you're getting into. Right. And some people probably think, oh, there's a bunch of dogs that are more concerned about fighting and all this other kinds of things. And while those are our behavior concerns, infectious disease parts from time, maybe not as much now as maybe 2016. But now they're boring. COVID Yeah, that people are just more aware of this kind of stuff. But it absolutely is a thing and be aware, talk to your vet. And we're gonna put Dr. Martens phone number on the bottom and call her directly and ask her any questions. You want 24/7 she doesn't sleep. And I'm just kidding.

51:46

She's an internist. She has a lot of energy. No, no, no, I think, Well, I think this has been a very, very balanced like a very common sense discussion of, is it safe to go to the dog park? And how can we make it safe? So you know, so that our dogs can go?

52:08

Right? It's like driving a car, right? Of course, it's not safe, right? You're getting in a car going 60 miles an hour. Okay, but you would make it as safe as you possibly can. And you're gonna be okay. For the most part. Right. There you go.

52:18

Like that. It's inherently unsafe practice that we do every day every day, right? Yeah, that we make safer.

52:25

Right? I like

52:27

to live by very nice. Dr. Jason.

52:30

I don't say much. I don't say much. But when I do, it's very epic.

52:34

I mean, I'm just thinking, Who is this guy today that he came out with rules. And then he's popping off with like, this philosophical like approached dog park.

52:49

A wise man once said, I stay ready. So I don't have to get ready yet. Ready?

52:53

Yeah, it's true. It's true. On that note, we're gonna say thank you very much, Dr. Don Martin from Clearwater Animal Care and referral refer animal referral and emergency service. It's care. They care down in Clearwater, Florida. So if you're in that area, you definitely have a pillar of your, your intellectual community you can lean on. And if you have you need expert care and specialty care for your pet, you should pop over and see Dr. Martin at care. Yep. Thank you so much for joining us today. Dr. Martin.

53:32

And if you're from Clearwater, put the towel down first and you know the beach. Yes.

53:36

If you're if you're so close, you might as well bring your blanket. Lay it down.

53:44

Yeah, you could play a little beach blanket. Bingo. Anyhow, we're getting out of here. We're closing the chat room now.

53:53

Yeah, we're all going to the beach because we're all protected. vaccinated. We all have challenges.

53:59

We'll get it get your son goggles. Okay. Anyway, thanks so much for joining us. That's what we have for you today. I'm Dr. Jenn the vet and I'm

54:09

Dr. Jason. I will see you next time.

54:12

This episode is brought to you by full bucket veterinary strengths supplements the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses,

54:22

Merck animal health, the makers of Noby vac vaccine