Chats with the Chatfields

Ep 38: Top 5 toxic plants with Dr. Renee

January 24, 2023 Dr. Jen the vet and Dr. Jason Chatfield Season 1 Episode 38
Ep 38: Top 5 toxic plants with Dr. Renee
Chats with the Chatfields
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Chats with the Chatfields
Ep 38: Top 5 toxic plants with Dr. Renee
Jan 24, 2023 Season 1 Episode 38
Dr. Jen the vet and Dr. Jason Chatfield

Do you know which commonly used landscaping plants are toxic to pets?  What about in an herb garden?  That's all natural right? Can't be toxic? WRONG!  Dr. Jen the vet and Dr. Jason Chatfield are joined in the Chat Room by a Chat's fave, Dr. Renee Schmid from the Pet Poison Helpline, to chat all about toxic plants and what to do about it.  If you are dying to know what these plants look like - check out our Youtube channel!  We drop in pics of the plants as we discuss, so you can recognize the danger lurking in your yard (see what we did there?)!

A useful infographic to put on your fridge!
https://petpoisonhelp.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/NEW-PPH_plant-infographic_Final.pdf

For more on Dr. Schmid: https://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/about/staff/renee-schmid-dvm/

This episode is certified to provide 1 hr of PACCC CEU’s!  The unique code will be delivered during the episode, so listen up! Don’t know what PACCC is? And why would they be involved in CEU’s?  Pet lovers can get more information at www.paccert.org

Show our sponsor some love:
FullBucket Veterinary Strength Supplements - the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses

SUBSCRIBE to our show on Youtube or on our website: https://chatfieldshow.com
Follow us on instagram @ChatfieldShow

Share this episode with a friend who needs to hear it...or might be interested in the topic...or just to make their day brighter! :)

Show Notes Transcript

Do you know which commonly used landscaping plants are toxic to pets?  What about in an herb garden?  That's all natural right? Can't be toxic? WRONG!  Dr. Jen the vet and Dr. Jason Chatfield are joined in the Chat Room by a Chat's fave, Dr. Renee Schmid from the Pet Poison Helpline, to chat all about toxic plants and what to do about it.  If you are dying to know what these plants look like - check out our Youtube channel!  We drop in pics of the plants as we discuss, so you can recognize the danger lurking in your yard (see what we did there?)!

A useful infographic to put on your fridge!
https://petpoisonhelp.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/NEW-PPH_plant-infographic_Final.pdf

For more on Dr. Schmid: https://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/about/staff/renee-schmid-dvm/

This episode is certified to provide 1 hr of PACCC CEU’s!  The unique code will be delivered during the episode, so listen up! Don’t know what PACCC is? And why would they be involved in CEU’s?  Pet lovers can get more information at www.paccert.org

Show our sponsor some love:
FullBucket Veterinary Strength Supplements - the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses

SUBSCRIBE to our show on Youtube or on our website: https://chatfieldshow.com
Follow us on instagram @ChatfieldShow

Share this episode with a friend who needs to hear it...or might be interested in the topic...or just to make their day brighter! :)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

plant, dog, cats, yard, pet, ate, sago, people, big, toxic, renee, vet, chew, toxins, bait, bad, toads, pet owners, veterinarian, oleander

00:05

This episode is brought to you by full bucket veterinary strength supplements, the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses.

00:15

Hello, and welcome to chats with the chatfields. A podcast expand your idea of what impacts veterinarians, pet owners, basically all animal lovers in the galaxy as humans. We are your hosts. I'm Dr. Jen

 00:27

the vet. And I'm Dr. Jason.

 00:29

And if you have not yet subscribe to our show, why not just go to Chatfieldshow.com And subscribe today. And if you want to reach us, you can find me with any message full of love and positivity at Jen@Chatfieldshow.com.

 00:43

And as always, if you have any serious questions or concerns with real life issues, you can reach me at Jason@Chatfieldshow.com.

 00:51

Okay, well, welcome into the chat room. Everybody. Today we have a great show ahead of us. We have a returner. Yep, a returner Jason. That was not the best reaction. A returner to the chat room.

 01:06

I don't know. I don't know if that's a word but okay. It is today. It works in Scrabble.

 01:13

We have Dr. Renee Schmid coming back into the chat room. I know I'm very excited because we listen chatterboxes you guys loved her when she came on before and we loved her. And we're so impressed with how smart she is that we asked her back and somehow she said yes. So it's very exciting. So as a brief reminder refresher for everybody. What makes Dr. Renee so amazing, besides just being a wonderful person is that she is what we call double boarded. So she is board certified in veterinary toxicology. But she's also a diplomat, as we say, of the American Board of toxicology. And, yeah, do you know the difference between those two Jason? I

 01:58

don't actually, I don't know.

 02:03

American Board of toxicology does not discriminate. It's just all toxins all the time. Wow.

 02:09

That's a much broader umbrella. All right. College by itself is pretty impressive. But toxic colleges. That's it. Okay, then. I'm gonna sit back and learn stuff like normal.

 02:19

So welcome, Dr. Renee, welcome back into the chat room. Thanks so much for joining us.

 02:24

Thank you for having me. I'm

 02:25

excited to be here. Ah, that's wonderful. And we shouldn't we should mention actually, as well that she is a big bombdiggity at the pet poison helpline and at safety call International. So if you call their panicking because your dog cat bird, I guess bored of toxic anything. Any creature that you love, may have come into contact with something that that you don't know is toxic or not. You may get Dr. renee on the phone.

 02:55

Yeah, you can just simply ask for the big bomb diggity. And it's a red line right to her.

 03:00

You will know who that is.

 03:03

The BB D phone is ringing again. Oh my gosh, better answer it. Yeah.

 03:09

Okay, so that's fantastic. And we do love what you do. We'll talk a little bit more about what she does over there. In a second, we'll get to that. But today, hold on. I'm gonna refocus my camera, everybody.

 03:23

I was gonna say you're out of focus. Or the norm you're out of focus.

 03:26

Yes. But today, we're gonna focus on, like, things that you should not have in your yard. If you have

 03:37

a pet. Now, it's a great topic, right? It sounds weird things you shouldn't have in your yard. But I mean, almost everyone that has, especially dogs has a yard they plant stuff and, and some good conscious owners think gosh, should I plant this and not because I think I think we're gonna be surprised the amount of things that are actually are can be toxic to your animals, right?

 03:56

Yeah, and it's not just stuff you can plant because they're gonna be it's just gonna be stuff that could be in like the yard ish. Arena.

 04:05

Oh, I see where you're going with that. But all right, let's

 04:10

listen up everyone with apartments. It's still you. Right? Because even if you don't have a department, right? I mean, I feel like every human has this innate need for like a potted plant. Like you're gonna have a plant somewhere. Right? And

 04:25

don't get the patio garden.

 04:27

patio garden. Thank you so much. Yes, exactly. All right. Okay, so shall we hit it? Shall we just get started? Okay, so let's start number one so and Dr. Renee you can you can share these with us like I've got no pad and paper. You feel free to share these with us in any order that you like, which one is like your favorite if you want to start with that or your least favorite or just wherever you want to kick it off? Yeah.

 04:57

So I think we'll start out with the the one plant that I would avoid, kind of at all costs. If you have a pet if you have a dog or a cat. Okay, those are the Sago palms. Oh, nice. In Florida, the warm weather. And we used to think of it just as a warm season plant because it's the palm outside. Yet they're making little hybrids, little miniature dwarfs that you can have in your house. Like a bonsai. They go Yeah, yeah. And so you can get them in the colder climates. Climates all over the all over the country and even Canada. We're seeing we get calls from them too, from having them inside. So that's probably my that's probably my number one plant to always avoid.

 

05:41

I will tell you this, but I'm gonna tell you anyways, Dr. Jenna vet has 47 sago palms in her yard, this is going to have to go dig up, right?

 

05:48

I know. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Um, because we have so many say goes, this is one that I'm familiar with. But also, as a practitioner, I've seen dogs that came in, they came in and they were they were vomity. And they didn't feel good. And I just looked at them. And I was like, Yeah, did they eat anything? And the owners did not realize that that dog had eaten Sago palm. The not the pup, but like the seed like the seed. Yeah, and they

 

06:20

do the bad thing or when it's real. It's real. So I'm trying to picture a dog chewing on the bark and I'm like, I don't know what dogs gonna chew on that but maybe they I didn't want to call any species out. I was just trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt here. But But is the bark actually or I don't know if you consider bark, but is the trunk of the Sago. Yes, as well.

 

06:44

Yeah, you bet. So all parts of that plant are toxic. The, the seeds are definitely the most toxic part. But you know, even the, the the fronds, the the leaves, those are all all of it all of it is toxic. And the downside to the seeds is that you know, they they drop they drop occasionally or a lot and very frequently and so the owner may not see them in the yard and they may not know that they're out there may not even think about it. And then these dogs get into it and we can see liver failure we can see some neurologic signs so seizures developing some really severe gastrointestinal so vomiting and diarrhea with blood really can be fatal to these guys so it's just a big it I don't live in a warm climate but it'd be a no it'd be a no in my yard for sure.

 

07:37

If they do for sure like like Dr. Jin said know that they like she thought oh, they get in something that they know for sure. They got into a sago seed and they said, Hey, one seed it was this big and it was 35 minutes ago. They look like little balls right there perfect for them. It's to swallow and chew up. Is there anything that can be done? Or is this just you know, palliative care and empty stomach and cross your fingers and hope there's no anti sago, antiviral or whatever antidote antidote?

 

08:07

There's no true antidote, you're right there. What so what we would do is we would do decontamination, like you said, we would try to get them to vomit. See if we could get it out. You can use activated charcoal in some of these cases, they've actually started having some fairly decent reports and good responses with using Colas tyramine instead of activated charcoal. And so we're using that as well. And then there's some medications go in acetyl cysteine. That is, helps with liver support and really just trying to help prevent signs from developing and issues during that. Yeah, unfortunately, there's no no reversal.

 

08:48

Yeah, that was my point. I'm trying to bring up don't plant the plant. You know, right. Well,

 

08:51

but but I'll tell you, so the handful of Sago palm toxicities that I know for a fact were that because sometimes we don't ever know right with it again, the ones that I knew that were that most of them they had either chewed extensively on the seed, or they chewed and eaten the seed. And I did but it was it was so long that I couldn't make them up chuck the seat itself because if they just did whatever is there, I mean, you know, they'd bark their guts out at home and they didn't come up, but I'm using activated charcoal to absorb whatever remained in the gut. Because that's an important piece that owners sometimes discount is absorbing whatever is still there. And then I have used the coli polystyrene colon cancer bra whichever that is. Closer mean Yeah. As well in toxicity cases, only in blue green algae toxicity though I didn't use it in sago, but anyhow, I was about saying Oh, Dr. J, and then and then I flushed them right because dilution is the solution to all pollution, right? So I put them on aggressive IV fluids, I put them on liver support, you know, Milk Thistle and all the liver protections that we have stopped the puking. And I actually had great success with those with those dogs. Some had to stay on the in hospital and on IV supportive care longer than others. But they did. They did well, even though they're, oh my lord, their bloodwork looked horrific. I mean, poor rific ly bad bloodwork, I was giving the guarded prognosis conversation with the owner, just to let them know, it was bad. But the moral

 

10:36

of the story is what Dr. Jenn

 

10:39

is, do, you know, if they if they accidentally ingest it, don't get aggressive, be aggressive with it. And that was the other thing is at the beginning. They were aggressive, and whatever. But here's the key part. I only had one of those owners that even knew what a Sago palm was. The others were like, what's

 

10:59

the moral people people there? They're pretty plants to show that Home Depot or wherever people love them. They're interesting looking plants. But just gotta be aware part of your job is as a steward, you know, of the of the pets life is to know what's good and what's bad for you. We're trying to get the news out there information or putting it out there. Bring folks. That's right.

 

11:16

That's right. Sure. Yeah. And when they and when they do get into something, you know, just don't, don't dismiss it, you know, just right away, contact your veterinarian or animal. Poison helpline we were 24/7. So you know, when your veterinarian isn't there, but yeah, and the one other comment I would make about your charcoal to just for pet owners to know is that a lot of times they think that oh, I'll just go get those capsules, those charcoal capsules over the counter. Not the same thing. Not the same amount. Not the same grade. Not the same. Yeah, for sure. So So, especially with Sago palm, don't self treat.

 

11:56

No, yeah. Because it's gonna it's not gonna go well, and you're gonna be upset later. So yeah. Okay, so that's a great one to start off with. So, right now we're gonna take a short break. So put your earbuds in and go check your yard for sago palms. Because also, like our guest, and Dr. Jason don't know it. But I bet you that our producer dropped a photo of some sago palms

 

12:20

on the video. And that's a good thing. That's the look. I don't even know. Right? It is so.

 

12:25

So if you're listening to the audio version, check it on the YouTube channel, because we're gonna put the pictures up of all of these things that Dr. Rene is going to share with us. All right, so, quick break, we're gonna be right back, hanging out so you can find out Dr. Rene's other tips for safe landscaping. Dr. Jenn the vet, and I'm here with my friend and colleague, Dr. Keith lassen. He's got an incredibly interesting story all about full bucket health,

 

12:53

my college roommate and that school, housemate. Dr. Rob Franklin and I were collaborating on some cases, both of us were struggling with diarrhea in some of our patients, whether it was after a procedure or after after an illness. So we created a formulation. But we didn't want to just create a formulation. We also wanted to create a movement and animal health, for being able to help animals in need, through the use of bark products that we developed that really this resulted in our one for one giving program, which we're we're really proud of as much as we are our formulations for dogs versus cats.

 

13:27

And so if you want to know more about their one for when giving it full bucket, or if you're interested in better supporting your dog, cat or horses, digestive health, head over to full bucket health.com to learn more. All right, and we're back in the chat room. Dr. Jason is talking about redactions, right doctor?

 

13:50

Anytime when you judge agenda, vets name we got to redact it for to keep the reputation of the paper if that's all I was saying. That's it. That's a normal thing to say. So that's not me. No, I'm sorry. It's not normal. Normal.

 

14:02

Okay. Anyway, all right. So sago palms, they're a big no, no. Okay, everyone, I know you ran out and checked your, your your yard right now and your neighbor's yard because those those things can can travel. Right, those little seeds can fall over and fall into your driveway. Oh, yeah. Would have to be a big big bird. A bird?

 

14:24

I don't know. It's a baby hawk. Okay.

 

14:31

Okay. All right. Yeah. So that's our first one. So sago palms. So now what, what's next what to look out for? So I'm going to shift gears just

 

14:41

a little bit to your garden. So it can be in your little your little balcony garden or your little garden in the yard. A lot of people like to plant chives and onions. Yeah, yeah. And so I would say to not necessarily avoid them, but make sure they're probably have some little fencing around them before. Are your cats especially so dogs and cats are both talks are both sensitive to onions and garlic, any type of onion. So the chives, scallions, anything like that fed cats are really more sensitive. And my cats love to nibble on whatever's. Yeah. Yeah, so we had to put a little fence around the guard around that area to keep them off of it, they can have anemia, so that can destroy their red blood cells. And if it's one of those things that a lot of times people don't notice that they're that their pet got into it. And if they get into enough, then they can just, you know, the veterinarian or they'll tell the veterinarian, gosh, they're kind of lethargic, they're dumpy, they're not eating, they're not really have really clear signs, and then they may be anemic, which can be caused by many different things. So onions, onions, chives, anything like that, that make sure you've got fencing around or just avoid that in your garden.

 

15:57

Okay, so I have a question about that too. Because pose that, you know, pose that actually Dr. Renee has met because that in person. So she loves her too. But I'm just presuming. Because that loves to clean up, whatever, I don't add supper and, and, you know, we always learned about onions and garlic. And my favorite flavoring is garlic and onions. And so when whenever I cook with that I like I don't let her I'm sorry, the plate or anything.

 

16:31

Whenever you what was that? I cook? I don't think whenever you reheat some food with that anyways, go ahead.

 

16:39

Anyway. So but then I feel like, you know, it's a little bit of an old wives tale, and I'm not sure I mean, I err on the side of Yeah, she doesn't need it. Okay, but But is that true? Is that the same thing you're talking about with like the raw onion and chives and scallions and garlic and stuff? Or is cooked different? Or what's the

 

16:58

deal? Yeah, you bring up a really good point. And sometimes the cooked is worse, because if you're using garlic powder, onion powder, they're so much more concentrated, or the dried minced onions, they're so much more concentrated than using a like a full onion. And so that can actually be somewhat more problematic. Once you've mixed it in with your meal, unless they're eating the entire plate of what it is probably not going to be as big of an issue. But when they when you leave that sitting out on the counter, they they get into the container. We had a dog this past year that ingested a large amount of garlic powder from Costco when those big large and had severe signs and it was really built for several days. So that's probably inside the home. That's probably the bigger concern definitely, with those cooked things is the concentrated products.

 

17:57

Okay. Okay, so that makes sense. But I mean, really, because also people worry about that if the dog gets a little bit off a plate. So if it's, he's kind of diluted again, dilution, but the food items that you cooked it with and it's not just like a plate of onion or garlic. That it's okay, but either way. I'm just because it still doesn't need that. Like she doesn't need it. She doesn't need that so bad that it's worth the risk. I would say I think

 

18:27

going home in the garden is probably not uncommon. People love to do those things because they feel very organic and I'm not going to buy the store and snip and use those in my opinion. Yeah, in wild cats chowing down on him, you know, all during the day. So ya know that they're not great, but a lot of people probably don't don't recognize that these things aren't. aren't great for them. So put a fence up. I love

 

18:47

it. Oh, natural doesn't mean it's all okay. Yeah.

 

18:49

Very good point.

 

18:51

Okay. Okay. I like that one. All right. So sago palms, chives, scallions, onions, garlic. Okay.

 

19:00

Let's go back to plants because we're bouncing today. So lilies. Let's do Kelly's lilies for cats. And I just feel like we can never talk about it enough. And it's amazing how many veterinarians don't remember, or even just veterinary staff don't remember that lilies aren't necessarily bad or which type of lilies and pet owners to you know, it's just it's something that we just don't think about. And so the hemerocallis literally so day lilies who doesn't love a day Lilia gorgeous, really common for landscaping, we have them in our in our area. Fortunately, we had cats that didn't really like to chew on on those plants. But now we have a kitten who will eat anything and so we're going to end up likely having to dig up those those those delays before it warms up again. But when you see kidney failure develop so Lilliam the genus Lilium. So oriental lilies, Stargazers, tiger lilies, roses,

 

19:57

those are all the pretty ones.

 

20:00

Pretty One of the pretty ones. But if you have cats that go outside, you have cats that go outside and roam and like to chew on plant material. Those are really a bad a bad option.

 

20:12

Yeah, and I guess the treatment for those would be the same would be tried to give activated charcoal or some sort of toxic absorbent in the gut, and then just put them on aggressive, like IV fluid care, supportive care, and kind of wait for it to pass through the system. And that'd be Yeah, correct. You got

 

20:33

it. So trying to vomit that trying to get the cat to vomit, there's no safe way to get your cat to vomit at home. So please don't try, they need to go into the veterinarian activated charcoal, like you said, and then IV fluids because we can see kidney failure. Yeah, we're not really preventing the toxin. As far as the IV fluids go, we're really trying to do it for support to support for the kidneys and to protect the kidney. And these, a lot of these guys, they do really well. Fortunately, with aggressive care, it would be uncommon for them to actually develop kidney failure. The downside is that if you don't treat them and you just wait and see it can be too late.

 

21:11

Oh, okay, so definitely treating. Do you guys get a lot of calls at the pet poison? Line for Lilies?

 

21:20

Yeah. One of our most common Yeah. I want to say it's probably in our top five or six for sure. In our top 10. Hmm.

 

21:28

Wow. That's incredible. Because I'm used to seeing like, especially around Easter, you know, because lilies are easterlies. And I'm, I'm just see, I feel like we get flooded with social media posts. And, you know, just like PSA. Friends, yeah. Say like, hey, hey, people don't forget lilies are toxic, but I guess maybe it is something people forget. Or that just doesn't occur to them. Or they have other abilities

 

21:52

besides the college or whatever the issue of the leaves are, they have ones or whatever, and it bouquets and fall and a dry and I'm sure there's really dangerous when they dry, and all this other kind of stuff. Yeah. And

 

22:03

they think, Gosh, my cat's not gonna get into it, you know, I can't never gets up on the table is not going to get into it, or they're, they're getting flowers to feel better. And so they're not really thinking about their shot at that time, or it's a celebration or something like that. And so they've just got other things on their mind. And, and that, you know, a lot of times that cat that is so good and never gets on anything, and then all of a sudden Look at this beautiful bouquet. This looks really appetizing. Let me right now.

 

22:31

Right. And it's new and but like you said, also, I do think in the spring, kitten season, right? People who maybe have had a pretty stable feline population in their house, the one cat or two cats they've had that are grownups. And then they get a kitten. And they they forget, like, how fun kittens can be.

 

22:53

Super fun.

 

22:54

Is that through doctor every day?

 

22:56

Yes. They've been so fun. You forget about you used to be able to set things on the kitchen counter or the kitchen table. And then you turn around and oh, there's a cat up there now. Yeah, we've got to. Yeah, we've had a kitten proof our homes. So yeah, we're in the same boat as every other pet owner out there.

 

23:16

I love that. I love that. Okay, so we got lilies. So what's up next? I'm waiting. There's one specific one. I'm waiting to see if it makes your list. Plant. It's a plant. It's not a it's not a rare plant. It's a common plant.

 

23:31

So I think I would say rhododendrons, and Azaleas are question people. Oh,

 

23:39

good one.

 

23:40

Yeah. The reason I say that is because honestly, I probably would keep them in my yard if I had dogs and cats, because they don't they really need to ingest a large amount for it. But part toxins cardio toxins that are in there. So they can cause blood pressure and heart rate and heart rhythm problems and can be really problematic. Usually they have to, it's more than ingesting nibbling just a little leaf for so it's getting into a little bit more than that. The downside with trying to say, with chocolate, we can say this much chocolate they have to get into and it's hard to determine that in plants, because it's hard to really quantify how much they get into. Yeah, and but I would probably I I'd be cautious with that if I had a pet that really love to eat. Plant material.

 

24:28

Yeah, non food items. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

 

24:33

You bring up a good point. I was gonna ask that exact question about listen, if I say my cat took one little lick of a cow, Lily, would you worry? I mean, how do you handle that versus versus my cat? I just dug up all these lilies Do you treat them the same? Because you just don't don't know the actual concentration of toxins in the plant or actually how much the animal got or do you sort of kind of wait and see at that point? I think that's a tough, a tough thing you write with chocolate. I ate a whole bag of here we get in here. are one you're fine? Don't worry about it just watch keep an eye on it. But with plants, you know, what's, how do you

 

25:06

estimate that? Yeah, yeah,

 

25:08

that can be the frustrating part of treating plants, because we have to look to see if the owner can can determine, well, how much of that leaf is missing? How much of you know, did they sometimes they'll come and say, gosh, the whole plant was destroyed. And you know, there's there's pieces of the plant all over the place, and there's parts missing, there, we're gonna get pretty aggressive. If they are able to say, Gosh, I can tell that that a tiny little pea is is on there, a pea size is missing, then we'll then we'll kind of go from there, and maybe be a little bit less aggressive if they licked it, but they didn't ingest that whole actual plant material itself probably will be pretty, fairly conservative, and maybe just monitor those. Yeah, yeah. I

 

25:52

felt like I had a little piece of ability there myself. I just stopped the back door, but I'm back, baby. All right.

 

25:59

So I do love that you brought up the rhododendrons, because they're one of my favorite plants to talk about. Because also, you know, we sometimes talk about honey bee medicine in the chat room. And you know that that's a fun one. If you if you beat bees. If you have those flowers from rhododendrons available, then you get the, you know the magic honey, the funny honey that has hallucinogens in it. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, so, so rhododendrons can be I guess, you know, just hours of fun, whether you have bees, or, or bats, but still, I would recommend not having them in your yard.

 

26:41

I'm gonna have to look up dendron is, I know no better put a picture on there.

 

26:46

Right? You just look on our YouTube with the YouTube show radiate. They are pretty

 

26:51

plants and there's still that warm weather plants a little bit more. In the house. You can definitely buy them to have a house as a house plant too.

 

26:59

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so um, so we got one more slot here, maybe for the top five. And I'm waiting. I'm waiting.

 

27:08

I got an idea with Dr. Jones thinking about I have an idea. All right, but we're gonna put the we're gonna put the pressure squarely on

 

27:14

the guest. I'm gonna say and I'm thinking of most toxic here or most concerning

 

27:21

what we have in the yard.

 

27:24

Plants like Japanese use.

 

27:26

Oh, that's not but that's a good one though. Because people forget it's all fun and games until a Japanese you shows up in your

 

27:38

Yeah, in their common you know, they're not them. We have them in our in our landscaping as well. We've finally we kind of finally took them down because animals like to eat the berries. And the even though the leaves or the stems from them are kind of scratchy. Dogs need anything. And so I there was also called heart issues. So they have what we call cardio toxins that are in that as well. And they have to eat a decent amount of them. But certainly, but enough of a concern, especially if they're ingesting the berries that are from there, which are probably I would say the most appealing to the dog because they they're soft and fluffy.

 

28:20

And they seem like a toy probably colorful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, there were two there were actually there were two things that popped in my head. Right. So one was Oleander okay, because it's because it is so like it's fairly ubiquitous in a lot of the United States, but people don't usually like in my in my experience, which is probably going to be very, very small compared to yours. Dr. Rene, I don't like even when I used to work in emergency clinics. I didn't get a lot of people whose dogs ate Oleander or cat ate Oleander. I don't know if it's just too large of a bush or but they I just didn't it's we just know that it's toxic. Right.

 

29:02

So I thought Oleander was a big concern for horses. Is that Is that a thing on my kind of making that up? Is that totally.

 

29:07

So it's definitely a bigger concern for the larger animals are grazing animals but definitely something you can see you in dogs and cats. But you're right. Dr. Jen, it's not something we get a ton of calls on the state that has the most calls with oleanders, Arizona. Arizona happens to be the under state. And I think why I remember that. I'm not sure but they were the ones that this last year we had the moose Oleander calls from Arizona. And

 

29:36

I wonder if that's because the plant itself it's I don't think it's a succulent but I think it doesn't require like a ton of water. Right?

 

29:45

Yeah, I don't think that it does. And it's again, it's a warm weather warm season plants. So we see a lot more in the southern southern regions and I don't know, I guess maybe you can have it as an indoor plant. I guess that's not one that I think of as someone having as an indoor plant. So maybe that That's why we don't get a lot of calls on.

 

30:02

Yeah, me either, either. And then the other one that was in my head, it was my first puppy that I had my once in a lifetime dog Daisy. Best dog ever. She has a puppy. And also this was when I was in school, right in vet school and like, you know, everything like, you know, when you learn a new disease as a vet student, you're like, oh my god, I think my dog has it. Oh my god. Right? Yeah. Okay. Well, we were I must have been in Toxicology at some point with her. And they talked about different Makia. Like dumb. Yeah. And I had one of those in my little duplex apartment. And of course, naturally, Daisy decided to investigate it. And I was like, Oh, my God, I broken my dog. Yeah, that student. So I think that one, I think that one's not as common anymore, I would guess.

 

30:54

Um, you know, it is actually common, but it's not a big concern. So they can chew on the leaves and the plants and they can really kind of go to town on it. And they have what are called insoluble oxalate crystals in the leaves and in the plant material. And so what makes that problematic is that it causes irritation to the mouth, and maybe to the stomach. But it isn't going to cause what we call systemic. So it's not in causing organ damage. And we don't we don't do anything with those. We rinse out the mouth, wipe it out, if you can, just to get some of those little crystals out. It's kind of fun. They're called little rat fights and video blasts and like there's these little crystals that they sit in a pillow and then when the animal chews on, it pops out of those little pillows and that gets in their mouth. So it's kind of fun to talk about and to see them, but not not a big concern.

 

31:49

Yeah. Well, Daisy was fine, everyone. She's got a long life after, but I don't imagine that probably tastes bad, and they don't like it. So it's probably a little

 

31:59

self regulation. Yeah, yeah. There's usually some pain that comes along with it. So a lot of times the owner can say, gosh, they're drooling really bad. They're piling up their mouth and rubbing. And so yeah,

 

32:11

yeah. Jason, Which one were you thinking? So

 

32:13

I spent a lot of time in southern southern southern Florida, right. And they can grow everything. They're good, bad, whatever, everything grows, because the weather is so great. It's like people grow there. But everything is so good, because the weather's so good. But there's a lot of really pretty plants they use in hedges and I forget that, that Tura or trumpet plants or angel plants or whatever, yeah. Ready Angel trumpet plants. They are really, really gorgeous. And they're all over down there. And I'm fairly certain they're toxic. I just don't know if you get a lot of calls. You probably don't because they're typically outdoor plants. But who knows, maybe they fall in the eating because I know is the inside of the flower. I believe that's the most the most toxic and to humans anyways, or maybe just causes. You know, hallucinogen. I mean, it's a hallucinogenic. And maybe it's not necessarily toxic. I don't know. Who knows. But

 

33:03

yeah, you bring up a good one. I remember that one be more concerned with it with your cattle, your grazing animals, your cattle and things like that. But I'm sure there's probably a potential issue of it with small animals. But you're right. It's really

 

33:22

if they get hold of it, but I think it's probably harder for them to get Yeah, I just wanted to bring it up because they're pretty that's all they're really pretty pleased. All the Pretty plants are bad for you. It's crazy. They are.

 

33:31

And they're in the southern region. Pretty Yeah.

 

33:35

I don't know. It's pretty but they grow everything there. That's for sure.

 

33:37

They do grow everything down there. Yeah. Okay. So there's there's one thing that I friends, I did not warn Dr. Renee that I was going to ask her about this, but it comes up all the time. And it's good to sort of plant related I guess, because it's in the yard. And I saw it a lot in emergency Bufo toads, toads, right. So because if you have landscaping and especially if you have a watering system and you make it wet, then you're likely to find all kinds of creatures there and I don't know a ton about different snails. I think there's some snails that can be toxic, but I know that toads are

 

34:18

Yeah, most of the snails in the area are probably going to be more GI issues and you may be able to find a rare in here and there more of a concern the Bufo toads. Fortunately, again, they're regional so they're not really they're not commonly seen up in the north. So yeah, you southern nerves, you get all that great warm weather. You get all the bad things.

 

34:41

Everything grows well, gluten toxins.

 

34:45

So your cane toads and Bufo and Bufo toads, definitely we could see some logic signs can see some heart issues. Big problem there. Those can be hard to identify sometimes for a pet owner, you know, was this a Bufo Toad or was this a A different type of toad. Was it a just a frog? A lot of people do mix them up and frogs are not really going to be an issue but toads there's a lot of different poisonous toads that are out there.

 

35:10

I think toads probably got the same goal as chocolate it seemed down down south a lot of the pet owners maybe I just surrounded myself with really smart aware people I know they already knew about these toads. They already knew that they were bad and that's it they grew up in their family tell them don't let your dogs get a hold of them. When I when I went to school I thought I had no idea I thought it was weird that a Toby could be so toxic and so devastating to a dog because a lab will go pick one up and just chew on it forever. Right it is what they do and don't do but but down down south they seem to know about it. So that it so you know what the community has gotten done a good job of getting the word out about those things. So

 

35:46

that's good, but not not always because I treated a lot of Toad toxicities and the

 

35:51

word because I know about it doesn't mean they can prevent the dog from going to get it to well, they knew to bring it in.

 

35:56

Yeah, that's true. Well, they didn't know that the dog knit or that that was the problem. They just read the thing right? There's no right the dog was either having seizures there was one little Pekinese. His name was cash. He was a great dog little Pekinese. He he ate the toad. Which was bad. super bad because it just sits in the belly continues to provide toxin to the dog. Yeah, he did great. His owners brought him right in and he was having seizures already. Actually, he'd been foamy. And so I guess he just got tired of how it tasted so we just ate it. I don't I don't really

 

36:37

want to do all this is terrible. I mean

 

36:42

he wasn't a stupid dog. He was a it was like a very atypical Pekinese. I really enjoyed him. questionable.

 

36:49

He says, Well, I'm already committed. I've already started. Yeah, just finish it. I'm no quitter.

 

36:56

Like, you know him because he actually was a working dog. I mean, I've never seen a Pekinese who was a working guy, but he worked he herded. So

 

37:04

your dogs are corrected. The smart working dog who ate a toad? Yes.

 

37:10

Give me a break. Anyway, I so we treated him and he had the best owners. They were just like, we just love him. We have to fix him. And I actually had to put him in an induced coma and give him all kinds of massive amounts of support. Because he ate the

 

37:27

toad. Yeah, what's his name? Cash before or after that

 

37:30

it was before? Okay. Anyway, after I think 2436 hours, I brought him up out of the coma. And, and I was able to bring him all the way up and he did fine. Right. The seizures had passed and, and he did great. And then he turned out to have a really great like, he was just a really cool dog. That's, I mean, it's been 20 years since I saw him I think, at least 15. But I still remember everything about him and his case because he was such a cool dog. Yeah, yeah.

 

37:58

Great toxin stories. Really? I love I love this right? Yeah.

 

38:03

Well, I did. I used to do a ton of Emergency Medicine. And you know, I was what they call a magnet.

 

38:14

The ship you did emergency in the south, right? I did. There's a lot of talk. We've talked about a lot of toxic stuff in the South. I don't know what's worse in the South because in a winter it's all kind of concentrated and so you don't have a lot to choose from but in the south it's it's a lot.

 

38:28

I mean, then I had like a killer bee story. Well, I had a couple of killer bee stories that recruit like if you ever want to worry about those like those Africanized killer bee things. Yeah. Yeah. Be can be worried that it's real. It's true. What they do they swarm and then they just, yep, they're very aggressive. They are and like one like one story like instinct several times anyways, it's not worked out. They can but then the stinger is there and it just keeps pumping as long as the stinger is there. And I guess I'll be is do that that one, this one dog? Not at bandcamp. But there's one dog. Like it was like a 60 or 70 pound pit mix. They took the little boy to the hospital. And the police had arrived their 911 Call right and so the ambulance took the kid to the hospital and the sheriff brought the dog to our emergency clinic. No, it was well. Yeah, they were they were nice. They were nice guys, but they I mean they knew us at the emergency clean. Yeah, that was it. That was a that was not a great situation. That's what I'd say those bees are real. Okay, I digress into bees, but we weren't talking about flowery plants and stuff. So that's okay. Well, kind of makes sense. Sort of, sort of. Okay, so the number one thing, Dr. Renee, is there any one thing that you wish pet owners knew about safety in the yards, landscape areas etc. Just because of your experience with so many calls at the helpline?

 

39:56

I think a couple of them I'm gonna digress a little bit too. One of them is fertilizers. So fertilizers once they've gone out onto your yard usually not a big issue it takes a while for that, you know, even that dog that's a vacuum and it's just, it's just scouring your yard back and forth with looking up that fertilizer once it's been put once it's been put down watered in kind of follow the directions usually not going to be a big issue. And then the spot that I think fits but kind of doesn't fit it's just rodenticides so baits so or even if you're using like mole go mole and gopher baits, those usually contain zinc phosphide. That's a really common active ingredient. A lot of people don't put very that low enough and again are our friends a lab those dogs who are really great sniffers or maybe it's the Bassett or the hound dog that's a great sniffer it goes down in there and then ingest that and they can have just a really small amount to be a big issue for them. There's also little mole and gopher worms little gummy worms that I think are they frightened me having kids in the house yeah. Me worms that nosy yeah those container pretty much higher concentration of bro methylene and bro methylene she you can see that in mouse and rat bait, but a much lower concentration. And so one gummy one worm of these little guys can be problematic in that large breed dogs so it's

 

41:24

like a gummy worm like for real? If it was a happy worm it's kids going to eat it and that not tell Mom and Dad it's gonna it's indiscriminately gonna poison whatever eats it right so yeah.

 

41:36

Yeah, it's a little bit darker kind of look sometimes. If you don't know any of you who are who fish with those worm Lewers those are just gonna say that must look like a loser like fake bait it kind of Yeah, kind of

 

41:49

like gummy worms. I've seen some of the stuff

 

41:51

that my sparkly with the glitter. Yeah, yeah.

 

41:55

Anyway, so in so those definitely I would I would avoid but then a lot of times, you know, people may set bait out along their house. So rat and mouse bait. So that's where we talk about Koli. Calcifer all so that right, it's a vitamin d3, very concentrated vitamin d3, bait, and then bro methylene. And then what we consider the anticoagulants there's a lot of different active ingredients there. And so I think that's something that a lot of times people think about well, so when our time you know that mice and things are going to come up close to the house, we're going to put that there, and then maybe they forget about it, or maybe they didn't really see the importance or value of putting it in those little bait stations and they lay the bait around on their own.

 

42:42

Can you just imagine like those little green bars or sticks of bait the Tomcat bait like just laying around? Let's just leave that laying around. It doesn't look anything like a pet toy or a Kid Toy? Or? Come on people. Come on. Right? Come on

 

42:57

one of our listeners, but maybe our listeners friends, right? Maybe our

 

43:00

listeners friends? Or friends, right? Yeah. You know what? Spring for the little box? Don't go cheap spring for the little box.

 

43:08

Yeah. And in certainly animals, they're not pet proof. They're, they're certainly more resistant to it. And we get lots of calls with pets who have gotten into dogs, particularly who have gotten into those bait box boxes, but it helps to deter them a little bit. And things that I would definitely suggest not having out and about in Europe, anywhere in your yard or landscaping area. Yeah. Yeah,

 

43:33

that makes sense. That

 

43:33

makes a great thought about the fertilizer. I forgotten about that. And I do worry about it. But I'm also like you said once done in yards, okay, but you got to watch when it's not gonna sit in your garage open. Like that's what you're trying to get to. Right? The dogs get into it and lick it up. And they get all of it then Right? There's no one there's a whole bunch of it. So that's not good.

 

43:51

Yeah. If you have the garage, that so many people do, where that you use that that box or that bag of plant food very infrequently, and that lasts you for 1520 years, throw

 

44:04

it out, save that buck, man,

 

44:07

get some new ones. There's some of those, you know, that are out there that like there was a rose plant food used to contain an organophosphate, which can cause neurologic problems include, you know, that's not something that's there anymore, but you know, it could be it. Yeah. Yeah, it could still be in the garage. So I always say, if you've had it for five years or so let's toss it out. Maybe there's some newer ingredients and

 

44:35

let's toss it out by not putting it in the trash though. Let's toss it out by taking it to some disposal. Because I mean, organophosphate that's also like a category of nerve agent. We don't really want to be like spreading that far and wide. So yeah, okay, this is awesome. But the number one thing for everyone who's listening to realize is that if you think your pet got into any of these Is or anything else you think, in your yard or your neighbor's yard or even surrounding a dog park because landscapers don't always know. Just take them to your veterinarian, take them to the vet, be ready to answer the questions. If you see for sure that they chewed on a plant, you can identify, take a picture, take it with you, for heaven's sakes, we have the technology now. And you can also if you're worried and your vets closed or if you're worried and you just you're not sure you can get in call the Pet Pet poison helpline right

 

45:35

out of town, and it's just easier to call. There's a lot there's a lot of options here. So

 

45:39

yeah, you got it and maybe we save you a trip to the vet maybe we save you a trip in and save you the stress for for having to take that into the veterinarian.

 

45:49

There's yeah, there's that the thing is that's always a question and don't worry friends we have an upcoming episode this year. That's going to talk about can we skip the trip? What are like key things we should look for? Are we panicking hey don't make that decision all by yourself. There's help there's help out there the pet poison helpline is a is a great resource. So called Dr. Renee and her colleagues and they can help you out

 

46:15

remember big bomb diggity. Why? Dr. Renee

 

46:20

asked her No. Anyway, but she is there and they are looking to help you and your pet have a have a happy outcome. You know, so Alright, and

 

46:30

that call it Oh, I forgot her name. But she goes by the big bomb diggity. Can I talk to her please? No, no,

 

46:36

I think I can safely say that every person is going to answer that phone isn't there also we just have a great a great group of people who are very very knowledgeable way more than me and that are just there to help to help your pet

 

46:55

that is a captain of a team right

 

46:57

that's right they're excellent. That is incredible leadership right there. Okay, it's

 

47:01

honestly it's it's complete honesty. Just gonna say it is

 

47:05

helpful when that's the truth. Right. So awesome. Doctors Rene Schmidt with the pet poison helpline and safety call International. Thank you so much for joining us today to talk all about toxins that might be in our yard. And and just other other safety issues with pets. We appreciate you so much. You bet. Thank

 

47:26

you. All right. Well, I

 

47:28

think that's all we have. I'm gonna go check out because fishes plants at the farm.

 

47:36

I'm gonna go to the garage and fill out my 15 year old plant fertilizer 100% That's me.

 

47:42

Yes, that is you. All right, well, hey, we're gonna go clean up and I'm Dr. Jenn the vet.

 

47:47

And I'm Dr. Jason.

 

47:48

I will catch you all on the next episode.

 

47:51

This episode is brought to you by full bucket veterinary strength supplements the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses,

 

48:00

animal Animal Care certification council or PAP brings independent testing and certification to the pet care services industry is your dog daycare or boarding kennel or a groomer manned by pack certified professionals don't know if you don't know you got to ask look for the pack emblem at your facility to make sure that your pets receiving the highest level of professional pet care because we all know it's safer in a pack your pack CE code for this episode is cc 220075.