CBD? THC? Terpenes? WHAT?! Are all these the same? What even are they? Did you know there are even different kinds of CBD? Like CBDA? Yup! How much is safe for dogs? Cats? Does CBD even help pets? Is any of it safe and how do pet owners know what products are safe for their pets?
Luckily, Dr. Jen the vet and Dr. Jason know a guy...who knows about CBD and pets! Dr. Joe Wakshlag enters the Chat Room to talk all about CBD and YOUR pets! Dr. Wakshlag is another smartypants - he is a veterinarian board certified in BOTH veterinary nutrition and sports and rehab medicine. He currently serves as the Nutrition Section Chief and a Professor of Clinical Nutrition and Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation at Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine. For more about Dr. Wakshlag: https://www.vet.cornell.edu/research/faculty/joseph-j-wakshlag-dvm-phd
There's also a bit of V's View from Vet School tucked into this episode at the 11:12 mark! V's plays "Two Truths and a Lie" with us!
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Welcome to chats with the Chatfields. This is a podcast to expand your idea of what impacts veterinarians, pet owners and basically all animal lovers in the galaxy as humans! We are your hosts. I'm Dr. Jen the vet. And I'm Dr. Jason. If you have not yet subscribed to our show, why not just go to Chatfieldshow.com And subscribe today. And if you want to reach us, and you've got a positive message full of love, you can reach me at Jen@Chatfieldshow.com.
And for all of the questions that keep it real, you can reach me at Jason@Chatfieldshow.com.
Okay, so into the chat room today, we have a good friend, I would say an old friend, but we hate to characterize, but a good friend and an expert, because we're going to talk about what I think is cutting edge in medicine on any species these days. We're going to talk about CBD and pets.
Oh, I know. Yeah, that's ever changing. I don't know cutting edge is for short ever, seemingly ever changing as it goes. And you read all kinds of stories about it. And it can be a little bit confusing,
right? That's right. But don't worry, we're gonna clean it all up today. Right, Jason?
Expert, right? Yeah. No, we're
not gonna we're not gonna have all the answers because we don't even know all the answers, but we know a guy. And he knows most of the answers. At least he knows the questions that ask right. So back into the chat room. We're gonna get right to it because we don't want to waste any time. But back into the chat room today. We have Dr. Joe Wakshlag, who is a professor at the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine. And not only is the professor he is the the dude in charge of their veterinary nutrition service. And also, he is board certified not only in veterinary nutrition, but also in sports and rehab medicine. I mean, and wait. And one more thing one more. Yeah. So I know you need to know about
this. Going. We're gonna be able to talk about anything I know. Yeah.
Okay. He's also a retired dog sledder.
Well, we could talk about that. Podcast. That's awesome. Okay.
Thanks so much for coming back.
Good to be here. Always fun. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Okay. So we're gonna get right to it. People asked me routinely. in the exam room, they asked about it. I actually not as much as they did maybe a couple of years ago. Because I think people it's become more commonplace. Which means that people have even more questions. They're just not necessarily asking them right. I think they're going to the internet. So we hope to provide some information here. So first of all, can you tell us what is CBD? Because that's not really a word.
Well, I mean, CBD sort of became popular because the the farm bill in 2018 legalized the growth of hemp federally, so depending on the state you're in, and depending on the state laws, in general, you'll never get taken to the DEA for growing hemp in your backyard. So that's a that's a nice thing. So it's it's allowed an expansion of what used to be a thriving industry back in the early you know, 10s 20s 30s and 1910 2030s. And so what we now have is the fact that hemp actually doesn't make THC. Hemp make CBD which is cannabidiol and THC is the one that makes you feel cool and groovy, that's that's considered marijuana. But when we kind of break it all down, hemp can't have really very much THC in it so it doesn't make you high. Hemp has cannabidiol which is sort of a little called a brother or sister molecule to THC, which may have some pretty interesting anti inflammatory type of effects and or pain relief affects when given at the appropriate doses. And so as we know, people are using it for sleep. They're using it for anxiety. They're using it for modest pain relief. They're using it for pretty much anything.
They're using it to grow hair, they're using it yeah, they're they're used to lose weight to gain weight, whiten their teeth. I mean, like, I feel like people are but like very at the very initial part of your response there. I mean, so it is now legal depending on what state you're in, but legal for you to grow hemp in your backyard. Yep. Okay, wait, hey, hey, put those plans back guys. No, no, he said it's legal now. No.
Does Not Equal marijuana. That's a big, they're mutually exclusive. I guess they're not necessarily not the same thing. So I think people kind of use them interchangeably incorrectly. But they look the same,
right? Like it looks the same.
Say it's the same plants and you know, it's genotype. And it's the same thing it just has doesn't have the gene that makes THC. Basically, yeah, as we all know, we've cultivated hemp plants from, you know, pretty much to become local, we'll call marijuana plants because everybody liked the THC component, recreational thing, but over over time, and actually, the original plants didn't have a tremendous amount of THC. So we've been able to sort of cultivate plants that can make THC or don't make THC. And so that's really the the major distinction now between the plants and that's how the USDA regulates it. If they go and cut down your plant and say, Oh, you're above point, 3% thc. That means you're considered a marijuana plant. If it's below point. 3% THC, you're considered a hemp plant and industrial hemp plant.
And you're all good. Now you're ready to roll. You also said something super interesting does not mean we're not going to get medical here. But I thought I didn't even know this. This was a thriving industry.
Well, yeah, back in back in the day, it was used for fabrics and ropes and things like that. Before we had polyester and nylon and all those wonderful synthetic plastics that we like to make.
Jason turn on a Netflix documentary every so often, right? Yeah, there's a whole thing on it.
There's the Walking Dead count as a documentary. No, do no. Be right. I'm getting prepared. Okay. All right. So it could
be it could be planning for the next pandemic, anyway. Okay, so what I what I think is is acutely interesting is a couple of facts there just to distill from all of that. So everyone listen up. If you get nothing out of that, get this, you cannot look at a plant, just look at it, and determine if it's legal or illegal, you have to do a chemical analysis to determine the amount of THC in the plant and that is what makes it legal or illegal. By the federal law. Right. Is that right?
Pretty much yeah.
Okay. So, yeah, so So let's say that we have a plant because because THC is important, right? That's how we're gonna determine its legality. But that's not what we're looking for. That's not the thing that's providing the medical component or the the useful piece right now. Right? Because people aren't giving knowingly giving THC to their pet. Well, okay. I hope people aren't, right.
Yeah, I think you'd better watch that. Oh, maybe. You know,
this is where it gets strangely sticky is that there? You know, it's not just you know, there's over, over 400 different chemicals that you could be, could be considered a beneficial in a in a hemp plant. And, of course, the cannabinoids as a class are the most enriched. And so what what you'll actually as we get into the weeds here, a bit
unintended pun intended.
Exactly. But the reality is, is that actually CBD is not what the plant makes the plant makes a molecule called CBD A, which is an acid type derivative, obviously CBD. And only when you actually heat the plant and extract all those wonderful chemicals from the plant to make whatever product you're making. It doesn't actually turn into CBD. Right? So there's this whole idea that you could be getting benefits from things like CBD a as well. And then there's a whole bunch of other cannabinoids, CBN CBG CBC you name it. Those are all minor cannabinoids but the major ones are CBD a and CBD that are found in a lot of the quote unquote CBD products that are out there on the market.
Why did you put that in quotes? The quote unquote it's there's some confusion out there telling me there's there's interesting marketing techniques.
Yeah, well, marketing techniques when when somebody sells you a bottle that says you know, 200 milligrams of CBD and another one selling you the same size bottle and it says 3000 milligrams. You know, there's definitely differences in products right? You're looking for highly enriched products that are gonna be the most cost effective if you're going to decide to to use this as a as a nutraceutical to help with things like osteoarthritis or dermatitis or seizures.
Okay, so now that we know what hemp is, we know what marijuana is. We know you can't tell just by looking by the federal definition, and we know that CBD actually is not the only player in the game here because they're CBD a and CBD N and all the ones that you said, but CBD is the one that we get when we heat the plant because CBD a kind of converts into that CBD a youth useful cannabinoid that we're aware of right now. So then the next question is, how do we take it and what can we take it for? And which one should we take? But wait, because we're gonna get into that about what can you give your pet? What might that be useful for? After a break? So everybody hang with us because we're getting to that really useful bit. We'll be right back. With all the fuss happening in the pet food industry, why not invest in something to help guard against digestive health derangements in your pet? Full buckets probiotics are formulated by veterinarians to support your pets normal digestive health, your pets gut microbiome is integral to their immune system performance. Why not add full buckets daily dog or daily cat probiotic powder to your pets daily routine? to curate, protect, maintain and strengthen your pets microbiome. Visit full bucket health.com today to check out all of their veterinary strength supplements. All right, let's do this real quick.
These view from vet school brought to you by the AVMA trust veterinarian inspired coverage protecting you through it all.
Hello, and welcome to Vizio. Today let's play a vet school version of Two Truths and a Lie Number one, that school is hard. Duh. If that is the truth, friends, sorry to inform you. But it is hard. This is the hardest thing I've ever done. And I've scooped dead people into bags to give you relevance point. Okay, harder than that much harder. So just be prepared. So let's go on to our second that school is not a zero sum game, who I kind of should have done this one second, because that's a truth to this is going to be a concept that's really hard for some people to grasp because everyone that's here are Type A personalities and there used to like doing the best. I never competed for doing the best. I always just did the best I could. But I'm not one of those people. There are people that are going to think they're still competing with you, but they're not and you don't need to either you're here you want to move on. Okay. Number three, like calculus, you will never need to know how to find the Supra spin Adas. Again, this, unfortunately, is the lie. Most of this stuff while it might not seem super relevant in your first year is going to be built upon, this is the platform for everything you're going to learn. So you do need to kind of know it. And I'm going to say that you don't need to know every single little teeny tiny detail, but you might need to remember some of it. So don't think you're just gonna auto dump this stuff when you leave the classroom. And that's the only thing it's all cumulative. Every test is a little bit from the last. So try to stay on top of it. That's it. That's all I got for two truths and a lie. Sorry if any of it was disappointing, but hopefully it will be informative at the very least have a truth or a lie to share. Want to know if I'm seeing what you're seeing. Talk to me at info at Chatfield show.com For now I'm the and that's my view back to the chat room.
These view from vet school brought to you by the AVMA trust veterinarian inspired coverage protecting you through it
all. Okay, back in the chat room with Dr. Joe walk slag talking all things cannabinoid CBD and pets Okay, Dr. Jason go
I just loving it. You had a strip you know say it everyday cannabinoid cannabinoids. Hard to say I was watching you watching you on a camera kind of struggle to see that so well anyways, I wouldn't What am I going for? I would just go what do you do you know if you can give it to your dog? Or you know, that was my only question really? It can I can I give it to my dog? Can I prescribe it? Who can get it? If it's legal in the state recreationally ie California and some others does that mean it's automatically okay to give to my pet? What's happening here? These are the questions like Yeah,
well I mean this is this is sort of the the muddy waters here right is that long go back in back when we were all children in the 80s. There's a dietary supplement Health Education Act which basically said that you can pretty much grind up any plant that you feel is safe and if you put it on the market, you can give it and you can go buy ginkgo biloba. You can buy saw palmetto, you can buy all these things that are supposed to help with certain disease processes. Milk Thistle. Yeah, Milk Thistle. You can you can Put that all out there. And people can try it at their discretion, right? As long as you don't label on the bottle that it's going to cure or mitigate a disease. And so you're allowed to put that on the bottle and say, Hey, this aids and immune health aids and, you know,
basically take some secret works get back to us. Yeah,
right, right. And, you know, most reputable companies are gonna put something out there that's unsafe. Right, right, because they want to continue to sell their product. And so that's Act basically kind of said, go ahead and do this. And as long as you're not going around telling everybody, you're gonna cure cancer, you're in a good spot and expression, give people the choices that they want to help with their overall health.
And so how does that how does that work with CBD? Right? Because like, is it a reputable company and my gas station in the vending machine?
I'm not so sure the gas station gummies that you can find? Waters are what you're looking for. You're looking for a company that's got good quality control, consistent, reliable source, the products are the same every time. And there's a huge variety of different products out there. And And do they have CBD and sgpa? Do they have other minor cannabinoids? And I think what we're starting to find, and this is all very new in the pet world, we're finding that the dogs actually do absorb CBD and they absorb CBD a far better. And we're actually going across species now from from birds to macaques to horses and finding that the acid derivatives are absorbed better. But we don't know a lot about exactly how they act, because nobody's really studied them very well. And we're sort of in the infancy of studying some of this stuff.
Thanks, DEA. Yeah, because it was classified, right. And so you couldn't like when they when they had it before the 2018 Farm Bill, they said that all of it was had had no discernible beneficial value, right. So they put it in class one because they said you could be addicted to it, but it has no discernible value. So no one could do anything with it. Right? And so we don't know.
Right? And so it's now actually been declassified with the DEA to a class five molecule, which makes a lot easier to work with. So a lot of folks are now working with it and doing you know, actually trials and, and right right now there are five trials and dogs and using CBD or CBD CBD products that have shown benefits, right for osteoarthritis. So,
so it kind of it kind of puts veterinarians in a tough position sometimes, right? Because I know both of you guys have probably heard this before. Hey, Doc, my friend Jane gave this to her dog. And it really made them feel good. Like, can I get some of that for my dog or cat or whatever? And you're like?
Well, first, and other than absolutely, they're not. So they're just gonna say, Hey, I don't know or fall back on. It's marijuana. And I'm not going to do that stuff. I can't recommend this.
But that's the safest play,
I guess. Yeah, it's safe. If you don't know and you don't know about the quality control the company you don't know much about about what what's in that bottle, then surely you're not going to recommend it. So
yeah. And so I guess that's the thing is because if if a pet owner is convinced that it's something that can benefit their pet, right, especially those those pets, like you mentioned, osteoarthritis, especially those pets that are so uncomfortable and have so much pain, that it is severely negatively impacting their quality of life, just because the veterinarian says, I don't know much about that I can't really recommend or prescribe it. That doesn't mean that's where it stops for the pet owner. You know, they're going to God bless the internet, right? They're gonna go look for information. So where I mean, is there a Is there a place that you recommend people go Look, is there like, what about credible sources? I mean, these days, we don't want to look at fake news about something we're gonna give our pet.
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's best and we all have to do continuing education and veterinarians, people are coming in and asking me about milk thistle, I'm gonna go and attend a lecture about no milk thistle and nutraceuticals glucosamine, I'm gonna go attend those lectures. And I think that that's, you know, I would say that they owe it to themselves to go and listen to a few of those CEE lectures. There's plenty online now. Everybody's got a Zoom meeting they've got, you know, you can now start to go to all these fun conferences like Western and BMX.
And speaking of which friends, I saw Dr. Walk Schlag lecturing about CBD in Las Vegas, I guess appropriately and learned a wealth of information I didn't know about right like about all these different metabolites or, or components of the cannabinoid class on the planet. Yep, the proof On the plant itself, and all of that, but that's a lot for a pet owner to look out for. And so I worry that people just get overwhelmed when they start trying to find it out if their vet doesn't have anywhere to direct them or any information to give them, they go online, they get overwhelmed, and they just pick something. And I think the the thing that I want to underscore for our listeners is that not only are not all the products the same, some of those products, like you mentioned, you touched on, they're not, they're not pure, they're not. They may have toxins in the product, as as well as CBD. Yeah,
I think that's that's the thing. I think, as a pet owner, unfortunately, you have to do your due diligence and ask, ask the company, do they have a full profile of the cannabinoids in here? You know, is it below point 3% THC, then likely, you're pretty good with the cannabinoid profile. Now how much is in there is gonna be different from every company. So you're gonna want something that's got a higher concentration, because then you have to give less and it lasts longer. And so I think, you know, you then have to ask about pesticide analysis, you have to ask about heavy metals, mycotoxins, you know, you have to ask about all these various things that could be contaminants, and we found lead in some of the products when we did analysis of 30 products off the shelf. And so, you know, sure, I don't want to be feeding led to your dog. Right? Does
it sound like a good plan? No, no, it's crazy. You can find that in there. That's let's make this whole sort of sort of industry a little scary. Because I have heard and as you guys know, have had good results with with with some of this stuff with a long story. But anyway, so Reader's Digest what kind of animal okay, it was a baboon was having seizures could not stop it with any of the typical seizure medicine tried it on CBD oil. I don't want to get into the brand name, but it was a regulated product, specifically for for this and it worked very, very well. I mean, I was, okay. I gave it with a lot of like, okay, I guess I'll try this, because I have nothing else I didn't expect much. And it worked tremendously, and still does to this day. And I'm reading some stuff that they use it a lot, and kids with epilepsy seems to have a lot of positive benefits to the seizures. And again, that's just anecdotal. And that, and I realized that puts people in a tough position. Again, back to the, you know, my neighbor, Tom, you know, took this, this this product, and it worked great. And for my dog, I want that it's hard to combat that. So, you know, I'm glad the information is coming. But it is. There is a lot out there. I think you nailed it. Everybody that tries to, you know, can easily get overwhelmed if you're not if you're not careful. So,
you know, I mean, I think there's enough data out there right now, for folks who are will say that the vets who are interested in trying it that, you know, we talked about arthritis, and that seems to be an area where we have multiple studies now, resting benefits, but now seizure study that had been published saying about 30% of dogs responded. Disclaimer, I do work for elevate appliances, and we just finished and showed almost the exact same thing. And interestingly enough, we're using a far lower dose than what they use in the kids. But ours comes from a pure, or they're ours comes from the whole hemp plant. So there's a mixture
of a lot of stuff.
Right? Yeah, right. Not just not just CBD.
Yeah. And it's the exact same response profile, but 35% of kids respond very well to it. We see about 35% it all. Here, hey, yeah, not right. Maybe that's
gonna work. But so there's something that was very interesting that you mentioned, you're the first person I heard talked about it this way. We talked about it with, with vaccinations that are administered simultaneously. And you mentioned something I think about like an entourage effect that happens with the different components of hemp. Right? Not just CBD. Can you can you like explain that a little bit more?
Yeah, the entourage effect is the fact that there's a variety of chemicals or we'll say, you know, compounds that are in the hemp and some of these terpenes actually seem to influence the absorption. And so these terpenes are what give it that fragrant funky smell. And when you ingest those, actually, there's a very interesting paper just came out of Australia showing that the absorption of some of these acids actually is hugely augmented by the terpene profile. Okay, well, if I just get the pure CBD, it may not be absorbed as well, right? Like views it from the whole hemp extract. And this is what they're showing the kid in the seizure studies now to is that you know, you have to use 10 to 20 milligrams of CBD per kilogram body weight right? With us a whole hemp plant. It's five to six. Wow. So like a three fold difference in the dose just based on whether it's pure CBD versus the whole hemp plant that's been extracted and it is rich in CBD. But it does have other goodies.
Yeah, well, that's sort of counterintuitive, right? One would think a pure product, I'm going for this, I would work better than this sort of mixture. But you know, Mother Nature sometimes knows, knows best that it's very interesting that it absorbs to be absorbed better with all the stuff in there. Right. So.
So once again, the policy is more effective when it rises together. All right.
Just like with vaccines, that is an excellent. That's very good.
Wolves. Wolves. Hunting packs, right?
That's right, right. Oh, that was the best line of what 2020 or 2019 was, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. gameofthrones anybody? Anyhow. So So I think that's fantastic. So so as long as we as veterinarians, indoor pet owners, as long as we are vigilant, we make sure we get from a reputable company, we got a reputable product, where we can see a profile of actually what's in it. Good stuff and bad stuff, right? Toxins as well as energy. And I would say if you can't, if you're a pet owner, and you can't interpret that, because it's a whole lot of science coming at you. When you say, Oh, do you guys have a profile? Like a chemical profile? Yeah. I mean, holy moly, if you don't have Doctor watch, like on speed dial, I mean, I think it's worth reaching out to your veterinarian at that point again, and say, this is the information I have about a product that I'm thinking of introducing into my pet. I know you didn't want to talk about before, but can you help me look at these at this information, these graphs, this profile? I think that's reasonable for a pet owner to do with their veterinarian, and talk about it then. So
now we get out, I would say sorry, I would say most veterans would love that. Right? We'd love we'd love them bring information, say, hey, help me help me with this, instead of instead of a not asking or be just doing it without questioning and then trying to, you know, something goes wrong, bring it to the veteran and say, Hey, fix this. And you'd have no idea what's happening. I think, you know, I would love that, you know,
emotionally when dogs are on other medications, right? Well, yeah, there can be some, you know, some things that they might interact with. And I think that's an important.
Yeah. So that's, that's what I was getting at is that so then the other so the question becomes then a, how much is too much? Right? Like, how is it toxic? And at what level? And then be? How much am I supposed to give kind of a thing? And I think that's the rub for veterinarians is not knowing that what we call the pharmacokinetic. Information, like, what does it do? How quickly is absorbed? How is it eliminated, etc. That's how we come up with the dose that we're going to give. But I think, from your perspective, there's been some some big strides in the last few years. In those areas.
Yeah. No, I mean, I think I think we're kind of under the in the understanding that, you know, if you get a bottle that's, you know, 60 mils, and it's got 3000 milligrams of cannabinoid primarily CBD, right? We're talking around 50 milligrams per mil. Now I have a dog who's 10 kilograms, and I probably should be giving somewhere around one to two Meg's per keg, that's a good starting dose for a lot of these pathologies. And sometimes you titrate up, sometimes you have to titrate down, and this is where they becomes the art of medicine. That's why your veterinarian get involved.
Yeah, one to two MCs per kick doctors, if you're listening for that. And you can find that reference published. Maybe we'll link to it in the show notes. Who knows? Yeah. So So then my other question is, because, you know, I used to work emergency and so to Dr. Jason actually. And this was pre 2018. Oh, sorry. Nobody needs to know that. But we, you know, we would we would treat dogs for marijuana toxicity? Yeah. And so is there a talk? Is it toxic? Is it like if it's just the CBD ones? If it's hemp? Is there a toxic amount of him?
Yeah, there is a nice little review in 2018, sort of showing what most Poison Control Centers said when dogs got into to a CBD product and ate too much of that bag of treats or drank all the oil or whatever. Most most of the time, they didn't seek veterinary help over half the time but if it was marijuana use saw veterinary attention because the THC can cause real horrible suppression of the brainstem and you're pretty darn sleepy as a dog and a toxic real quick and usually wears off over time. I'm so don't get too many will say real adverse events, which is that it's extremely rare because yeah, you many people dying. I mean more people every year die of aspirin toxicity than they do have marijuana toxicity.
But it's still scary. It's still scary. Most veterinarians emerge, you know, kind of right away what's happening, right, because you can tell by the way the owners President Wow. You know, you're gonna turn me in to kind of gotten to my stash Nope, we're okay. Right. So you kind of know what's going on. It can be a scary thing. Right, right. Absolutely.
Yeah, but I think but I think that's interesting. And so, we are by no means saying that if your dog eats your entire month's supply of CBD supplement, don't do anything. Seek veterinary care and advice. And if your dog eats your actual pot, whether it's legal or not in your state, we don't care and neither does the dog. Seek veterinary care for your dog. Don't make don't try to make that determination at home. Because who knows how pure it was? Who knows what else might have been in the plant? Like there's gonna be chocolate? Right? Yeah. Other stuff. There was that one case? Butter, right? Yeah, it was. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the butter was rancid or something. Okay, so then what so now so now I know roughly how much I'm going to give because I've talked with my veterinarian, there is some some pharmacokinetic information out there. I know what kind of product I'm going to look for. It's going to be I'm gonna look for a profile from a reputable company. It's going to have CBD or CBD A levels in it. No toxic stuff like heavy metals. And now and I know what I'm going to, maybe it could help with, right, osteoarthritis and inflammation, seizures, etc. Now comes how do I give it to make it most effective? Because you've already referenced the fact that some things are absorbed better than others? So does that mean I give it with food? Does that mean I don't give it with food? What kind of foods so what does that look like? Yeah, no,
I mean, it's, it's pretty well established now that you'll want to give it with with your morning and your evening meals, which are the perfect times because most people feed twice today. It gets absorbed when you have a good mixed meal of protein, fats and carbohydrates about a three fold improve absorption. So
three times as good of absorption. Is that right?
Yeah, yep. And the rat and the human studies have shown the same thing so even the kids that have the seizures who are on CBD, the straight stuff they they're told to have it with a meal in the morning, eat it with your eggs and toast an evening eat it with your hamburger, so
CBD drizzle on top would be great. But seems pretty easy to give, right?
Yeah. Now CBD sauce. I think there's no market for that.
I know. Right, Jason? Jason? That's right. No, I'm
looking for the side hustle. So
the podcast isn't doing it for you.
I'm looking for the side side hustle. Other side hustle.
That's right. Okay, so have so anything else that you because I know that you answer questions and talk about CBD a lot. Doctor walks leg with a lot of different sorts of folks. Right, some veterinarians, some vet students, some other professionals in the industry and some pet owners. So is there is there any one or two things that you wish that the whole world could just recognize about this product, this component, this chemical, this anything?
Maybe the word one thing? I guess I I, I just urge vets to just go learn more about that. And you know that, you know, that our clients need our help. And, and the reality is, is just to stick your head in the sand and pretend like it doesn't exist? It does. It does have some benefits for sure. And I think we need to figure out where those benefits are and how we can actually dispense it well and safely. And I think that's that's our biggest my biggest thing is, you know, get a little bit educated on this, just like we all we have to do our continuing education. And when when you have three clients a week coming in and asking you about something good chance, that's the education you need at this point. I mean, 20 years ago is glucosamine and chondroitin. Right, right. I'm giving this to my dog and we're like, oh, that's a pain safe. And we did. Well, now everybody's recommending it and saying hey, it might be good for joint integrity. So you know, 20 years from now maybe we'll be saying that about CBD. You know quite a bit about these cannabinoids and we know it's pretty darn safe and there's definitely safety data out there on CBD itself and it does appear to be pretty darn safe. They had to do trials. or Epidiolex, which is the human product? Yep. And then dogs for a year and they gave it huge doses. 100. Meg's per gig. So wow, that's, that's 50 times higher than what we're right.
Yeah. Huge. That's 50 times higher than the high end of what you're recommended. Yeah. That's 100 times of the low end.
Right. Exactly. Wow. Wow,
that was excellent math there. Dr. Jin. Excellent. I didn't even see use a calculator. On that note, I
didn't need it. Didn't need it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Well, I think that's, that's fascinating. And I agree, I think this is a train that's coming down the track. I think it's incredible. The more that I read about all the, the terpenes and the different things besides CBD and THC that are in the plant. And I am going to put you on the spot just a little bit maybe, because there was something you said in another lecture about one of the terpenes I think that is had a little bit more investigation than than the others. Right? And these are the like 200, something different chemicals that are also contained in the in the plant? Is it that one of them appears to induce cell death? Is that right?
Oh, we were talking a little bit about the fact that myrcene and beta caryophyllene. And some of these others, actually do have some some cell death effects. But we were actually talking I think when we talked about the cell death effect was the fact that things like CBD itself actually can induce all that. And so there are probably some synergistic interactions between those and and then some of the paper that we recently released, really did show that you may be able to get to levels that would help suppress certain cancers, but you need to take really high doses of it. Yeah. And so others didn't, right. So we studied CBD and CBDa CBDa didn't really touch the cancer cells, but CBD did, right. So they just in just in the exact same molecule, one little tiny alteration, and a very different pharmacological effect.
That's what's that's what's so incredible about it, though, is it is I mean, it all comes from the same place. It all comes from this plant that we haven't really been able, we the collective, we globally haven't, and especially in America, haven't really been able to investigate effectively for benefits, or negative impacts, right? Either way, because it was kind of put in a box and put on the shelf and said, Oh, we already know even though we haven't really investigated, there's clearly no benefit. And so they put it on the shelf and said nobody touches this.
Worse. They said this is really bad stuff. Yeah, so that's probably heard it heard it more. Maybe, maybe maybe given the information they had that was the right thing to do at that time. It's hard to look back on the past to the prison of today, as you say, but that is exactly what happened. Hey, bad stuff. Don't use it right now. Yeah, maybe? Yeah, good stuff, right. And I'm
not saying I'm not I'm not an advocate either way, right. I'm not an advocate either way. I just think that before we make a decision that we should have all the information that we could have, right. And so I just find that fascinating that in the, you know, 10 minutes that we've been able to effectively investigate. We've already found this huge amount of like the tip of the iceberg. But we know the iceberg is there now. So that that's what I think is incredible. And that's what science and research investigation is supposed to do. You know, it was Go Go uncover the iceberg, I guess.
The iceberg. tannic? Yes.
Yeah, exactly before the Titanic smashes into it. So yeah, so that's wonderful. So, again, we are not saying that you should be giving your pet CBD without the guidance of your veterinarian. We're not telling you to bake special brownies. We're not telling you that if your dog eats your special brownies, you don't need to seek care. Anytime your dog eat something they're not supposed to. You should seek veterinary care for your pet, your dog, your cat, your bird, your husband, your kid whoever seek care if they eat something they're not supposed to. Right. But all we're saying is, there may be some really exciting things coming in the next handful of years related to investigation of a chemical compound we've never been able to look into that may have some benefits already has shown to have some benefit. So it's very exciting. All right. Well, I mean, that's all I have.
I didn't know it was a long disclaimer, right? Don't do anything bad and blame it on us. Right? Well, I don't want any of you. If you don't know what's going on, some asked vetinary as the professional you need to ask not Google, not your neighbor.
Right, right. Neighbor, Google and take all that information to your veterinarian. Exactly. We love that. Yeah,
I do. I actually, I actually tell clients to Google it. I'm like, Google it, bring it back to me. You know, or, or when they've already done that. They say, you know, what you're saying is exactly what I found online. And I'm like, awesome. I love it when I agree with Dr. Google. You know, makes all that training worthwhile. Yeah, but don't don't hesitate to look on the internet. I mean, it is a tool as well. But if you're going to introduce something into your pet, maybe want to get some direct in person advice. from your from your professional before you do that, so, so wonderful. Dr. Jason, you have anything else you want to add? Do not
I don't that's it guys covered a ton of stuff is really good.
Yeah, we just scratched the surface too. Yeah. Um, Doctor watchdog, any other closing comments?
No. Always, always a pleasure. Chatting with the Chatfield, Joy. Thanks for having me.
Oh, we thought you were great. We always love having you on. That's fantastic. So thank you for joining us.
That's right. And we will get you on to talk about sled dogs. One day, it will happen. Prepare yourself friends. All right. Well, I guess that's all yesterday. Oh,
man. Yeah, big smiley got on there with his previous life as an adult. That's really good. So I know,
I know. All right. Well, now that's all we have. That's all we have till the next episode. I'm Dr. Jen. And I'm Dr. Jason. And we'll see you guys next time.
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