Ep 30: Them's the RULES! Behavior at the vet's office

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

veterinarian, pet, vet, people, clients, jason, happening, day, veterinary, clinic, rules, exam, animals, annual exam, life, owner, vacation, aviators, dog, roller coaster

00:06

This episode is brought to you by full bucket veterinary strength supplements the leader in digestive health for dogs, cats and horses. The AVMA trust, veterinarian inspired coverage protecting you through it all.

00:24

Welcome to Chats with the Chatfields, a podcast tobexpand your idea of what veterinarians, pet owners and basically all animal lovers in the galaxy is Cuban. We are your host, Dr. Jen the vet  And I'm Dr. Jason. If you have not yet subscribed to our show, why not?! just go to Chatfieldshow.com And subscribe today. And if you want to reach us and you've got a message full of love and positivity, you can find me at Jen@Chatfieldshow.com

00:54

And for all you guys and gals with real messages of interest, you can reach me at Jason@Chatfieldshow.com

01:03

Okay, today is a little bit different show it is another installment in our series called chats with the Chatfield them's the rule. Oh, great. But don't sound so excited. Dr. Jason,

01:19

just get worried when I'm not quite as prepared as I should be. But I was okay. Rules.

01:24

Okay, that was the rules for how to treat your veterinarian.

01:31

I didn't know they had rules for that. This should be posted everywhere. It should.

01:36

And I should say we're gonna expand it. It's not just how to treat your veterinarian. It's also how to do

01:41

that. Because that would be one rule. Right? It's like gold. Right? Yeah.

01:49

But also, it's, it's a little bit about how to treat other pet lovers and clients when you're at the vet.

02:00

Ah, how to behave in a veterinary clinic is that maybe what a better a better title is or what? Listen, I As always, I'm always introduced here with this podcast. Let's, let's get to it. Well,

02:14

I love it. Dr. Jason bring in the clever, like nugget. Okay. All right. So I'm Dr. Jason. Do you notice anything different?

02:26

Yes, you have these giant sunglasses on? And I know I'm supposed to ask why you have them on but I wasn't sure when so why. Why do you have those beautiful aviators on so reflective, so polished to a shine that I can see my own reflection through 87 different computer screens? It's crazy.

02:46

Okay, well, it's because Brace yourselves, friends. Right in the chat room. Brace yourselves everyone. Hold on to the sofa, embraced and taken a vacation?

03:01

What? I was not ready for that.

03:07

I know I gotta days

03:08

off. So what does that mean? Are you flying your helicopter somewhere? What does that what does it represent? Okay,

03:13

so the sunglasses represent vacation. Oh,

03:16

are you just trying to be you and Tom Cruise gonna go on a like a flight on one of his jet airliners or whatever. I mean, I don't fighter jets jet airliners you got the Aviators on?

03:27

i Okay. All right. Okay, point taken. Also everyone just in case you were not aware Dr. Jason loves to make fun of my aviators. Not on

03:35

the making fun of them. They're nice. Oh, well, thank you. Very nice. I like the fact that you spent two weeks policy you know

03:46

that's probably close to true. Okay, so no, I'm there on because for me vacation looks like a beach and sand plus, minus, of course water. And, and in fact, this vacation actually does look like that because I'm going to be on a boat for a week. But it kind of rolls into our segment today because

04:11

sounds like you're taking a cruise which I know that agenda vet would not take a cruise.

04:15

No, no, no, especially

04:17

with some of our latest podcasts about cesspools and

04:22

yeah, no, I mean, I'm sure they're lovely cruises. We're not trying to slam the cruise line industry. But I am not. I'm actually a friend of mine and I are going out on her giant catamaran for seven or eight days sale. Oh, we keys. Yes. All right. Yes.

04:41

So if you're in the key hit low jacked or something so that when you guys, you know what a catamaran is, right? It's not like that's not a fancy word for a giant yacht, right? I mean, it probably is but it's like two pontoons. It's some tarp, right? Maybe a little maybe a little nicer than that, right?

04:59

It's a nice it's done. So with that,

05:01

good luck Good luck. Dog.

05:04

You know my fear of sharks? No cuz that was gonna go but now because that is not going. She's very upset. Yeah. So she's, yeah, she's she's staying at the farm,

05:14

she is upset. She knows what she's missing.

05:17

I'm certain that she doesn't. But anyway, but my point of it is that I'm taking a vacation. I haven't taken a vacation in like 10 years. And you got to take a vacation. Dr. Jason, do you know why? Why? One might need to take a vacation?

05:34

Because you're forced to do podcasts with your twin sister every week, and you needed you needed some break from the stress? No, I don't know. Would that would that ever happen to anybody? No, I'm just kidding. But my point is because you feel like your people like to take a vacation, I guess. Because you feel like you're in a rut, it gets boring. You just want to break away, you want to relax and not think about your everyday duties, whatever they may be. Is that correct? That's a good enough. Reason. Right?

06:02

Yeah, I think that is spot on. Yeah, I think it's good to take a mental holiday, if not a physical holiday from what you do every day. It actually has been shown statistically to increase the production. But one reason that veterinarians might have to take a break, especially those in clinical practice, is to recover.

06:22

From what from what Pray tell other recovering from saving pets lives never gets old.

06:29

No, it doesn't. Except, you know, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble. But not all pets. are. We don't save every pet.

06:41

I know you're trying to say that. It's tough, right? Yeah. But not everyone that goes to the hospital goes there to get better. It's a it's just a tragic fact of life. And so that does your point is that that we can't save every pet and sometimes that's a mental drain, right?

06:55

Because that's an unrealistic expectation. Right?

06:59

It might be but I think maybe that the young uns go in there thinking that even though they're told by us old people, you can't say every pet you try and dry, dry just get get ready. They think they can and that's good. That's a good attitude to have, I think. But But yeah, you have to you have to set set realistic expectations. But man, can we move off of this topic? Yeah, well, I'm talking about pets not surviving.

07:23

I know. But this kind of goes goes hand in hand. So there's a TED talk. And I'm gonna put a link to it. In the show notes for those of you listening in the chat room. There's a TED talk that was done by a veterinarian, and it kind of inspired this podcast episode, because it never occurs to me that my mom and dad said I shouldn't call them regular people. But non veterinarians, don't always you're not always aware of what's going on. Right. Everyone's focused on things happening in their life that day. And

07:58

I have never, ever once been accused of that. Just FYI.

08:03

Said no one ever. So I think it's important to remind everybody, and actually for those who do who may not know, it may not be a reminder, maybe the first time you're hearing this, that when when you come into your veterinarian's office, you're there for, you know, let's say you're there for something kind of what I'll call kind of mundane, because you're there for an annual exam, right? Right. No less important in the life of your pet, but kind of mundane, you're not there for an emergency. Right? Right. And so that's kind of should be a less stressful visit. But then you have the two ends of the spectrum, surrounding that kind of middle ground, which are brand new puppy or kitten, or lizard or guinea pig or rabbit. And then the other end of the spectrum, which is a quality of life exam, to discuss, potentially the making the hardest decision, but the kindest decision, right, that we can make for our pets, which is the euthanasia. And so your veterinarian is seeing all those things.

09:18

And he currently Right, yeah, concurrently to say, that's a big word. I know. We're not just shocked. I use it, but it means at the same time, right at concurrently seeing seeing the beginning of life, middle of life, end of life, right? Yeah.

09:31

Yeah. And so that can be a bit of an emotional roller coaster. So we're going to talk about some ways that you can help your veterinarian and also ways that you can help yourself and other clients who may be there simultaneously in the clinic, get through everyone's day. Okay, so on the other side of this break, we're gonna we're going to chat about some of those those things. Alright. So You guys on the other side it's Dr. Jenn the vet. And I'm here with my friend and colleague, Dr. Keith lassen. He's got an incredibly interesting story all about full bucket health,

10:15

my college roommate, and that school housemaid, Dr. Rob Franklin and I were collaborating on some cases, both of us were struggling with diarrhea in some of our patients, whether it was after a procedure or after after an illness. So we created a formulation but we didn't want to just create a formulation. We also wanted to create a movement and animal health, for being able to help animals in need through the use of bar products that we develop that really has resulted in our one for one giving program, which we're really proud of, as much as we are our formulations for dogs versus cats.

10:50

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11:06

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12:46

All right, welcome back. Welcome back to the chat room. So today we're talking about them's the rules. How are we going to treat everybody when we go into the Veterinary Clinic? Musi specially your veterinarian. Okay. So we talked about the roller coaster. So the emotional roller coaster that I think people don't understand is a your veterinarian doesn't show up every day to work except for the fact that they do care about animals, including your pet. Right? Can we just take that off the table?

13:16

I don't know what that means.

13:19

Ah, well. Clients, sometimes we don't always see clients at our best. Right. I know you work emergency, you know, I love emergency. And I feel like I offer people a lot of grace for behavior in an emergency practice. Because they they're in an urgent situation,

13:42

by the nature of by the definition of what you're doing. Yeah, it's going to be a high stress situation on everybody involved. Okay, but But I don't understand what you were saying about say it again. Maybe I just didn't hear right.

13:53

Okay. Well, I just everyone's not always at their best.

13:57

Gotcha. All right. And you pay clients and you say, Ah, I understand now. Okay,

14:04

I got it. Yeah. So so from the client side, that's pretty obvious, right? Like, you may be there and you're worried about your pet, you may be, you know, getting test results, right. And you're thinking that your pet has cancer, or some lifelong metabolic disease, right, like Cushing's or a bunch

14:21

of unknown stuff, which causes more problems than anything, right? If you're going in for a health exam, you'll probably be okay. But if you're going in because I don't know what's wrong with my pet, there's just a whole bunch of things that could be and and, you know, most people don't know and most people human nature go right to it. Don't go to the best case scenario, do they go to the worst case scenario, right? And so that's got to put people in a tough frame of mind, right? Is that what you're saying?

14:47

That's what I'm saying. And so, as a veterinarian, if I go into I go into exam room one, let's say behind door number one is a

14:59

annually The field, right? So

15:01

it's an annual exam on you know, like, let's say eight year old cat. But the cat has lost 30% of their body weight. Nick came in for an annual exam number one, a it's a cat that came in for an annual exam. Hey, yeah, yeah. cat lovers, guess what? We're not seeing you. We only see 25 estimated 25% of cats. Take your cat to the vet. Anyway. So they come in. And in there, they come in because it's an annual exam. And the cats lost a third of their body weight. So now, right? I say, Hey, did you know your cats lost this much weight? Which I mean, to put in perspective, if I lost a third of my body weight, whoo, I'd be ecstatic. But my doctor would be freaking out

15:52

freaking out. Right? Yeah. Not always a good thing, right? No.

15:56

So now that owners hit with something they there's they they were unaware of? They might feel guilty, which is inappropriate. Never feel guilty as a pet owner when you're at the vet because you didn't have to go to the vet didja know.

16:09

Yeah, but that's a good point, though. A lot of clients do as soon as you bring it up. And it's hard to it's hard to ask that question that you just asked, without making them feel guilty. Try to like it's hard. It's just a hard thing to do. So you've already put them a little bit on the defensive. So yeah, so owners never feel guilty, right? Never ever. Just don't because you're right. You brought him to the vet. That's our that's our job to sort of tell you what's happening. Right?

16:31

Well, I'll just tell you what we see. Yeah. And so. So they come in, they find this out, they're embarrassed. They're concerned that as the veterinarian, I'm judging them as a pet owner, which, FYI, in my exam room, that's never happening. Because again, you didn't have to go to the vet, you chose to you recognize that you chose to right, good owner. Number two, they're worried about their pet, all of a sudden, immediate worry, right? Number three. Now they're fixing to look at an estimate for the cost of something. Laying out, right. So these are three big Whammies. Okay, so I leave that room, and they go to the next room. And I got like a three year old Labrador. Right. Everyone's like, the only thing happening in that dog. Ted is the room to room, the room to room. And he's banging the wall with his tail.

17:30

It's so it's typically happening, right? Yeah, super happy. He's just there to get like,

17:35

you know,

17:36

give me Tommy I'm good. Let's move around. Yeah. And the

17:40

owners happy and she's got three kids with her and yeah. Okay. And then I go in exam room number three behind door number three, and

17:51

have a quality of life exam. Do you know what a quality of life exam is?

17:57

Do I know it? I've never personally had one for me. Right? But I know I know what they are. Yes, of course, every veterinarian does they prep you for this kind of stuff. It is probably one of the most difficult things we deal with on a day to day basis. For sure.

18:11

Right? Quality of Life exam means I'm not sure if today's the day doc. Right. Okay. And so those are those are heavy appointments. And then sometimes while I'm in that appointment, a an emergency comes in.

18:30

True emergency.

18:32

Someone was walking their dog got hit by car, something like that. Yeah. So I there, they're knocking on the exam room door, and trigger quality of life exam. That's not cool. Right? They have to because this emergency just came in, and it's not breathing. You know, we do everything we can, you know, technicians running around, we're putting IV catheter and we're sometimes we're intubating, putting them on oxygen, getting fluids running. Sometimes we started CPR. And I've got to talk to the owner at the same time, let them know what's going on. do we how do you want to proceed? Do we want to pull out all the stops? And the owners almost always have questions like, well, I don't know. All right. Can you tell me?

19:22

How like will happen? Right?

19:23

How likely are they to recover? Right, so well. And just for all of you out there wondering if you find yourself in that circumstances recovering from CPR was a reasonable outcome. It depends on the reason that your pet arrested. But usually for adult animals, the likelihood of reasonable outcome is the same as it is in people. So it's it's difficult. It's not like on Grey's Anatomy. Yeah, right.

19:54

Or every other medical, human medical,

19:56

every other medical show where they're always doing CPR and getting the person back and You know, clear, you know? Yeah. So

20:03

you're there for a second time. Glad to have you back. That's exactly how it works. Right. Right.

20:07

Right. Right. No brain damage there from, you know, high apart

20:11

for seven minutes. Yeah, yeah. So

20:15

and that client is decidedly upset, then when it turns out that we're unable to resuscitate. Or they determined they, they don't want to resuscitate. A lot of times, they'll look at the veterinarian and say, Why didn't you save him? And we know that we know that, okay, we're prepared for this. Again, they're not their best selves, and that's okay. But then when I go when I finished with that owner who's devastated, okay. And then I go back into my quality of life exam. Or I go back into that exam room. Number one with Mike, you should choose for an annual, you should

20:58

choose number two, for sure first, right.

21:02

But then, but then I got to go back into behind door number two, where this happy go lucky to room to room to room to room laboratories with their with the three kids and the mom. And you know, the Norman Rockwell picture right of the vet in that exam room. And I've just come from this really heavy situation. So difficult. It's difficult. Right? So, Dr. Jason anywhere in there. Did you hear where I took my hypothetical self took any action? That was because I didn't love animals.

21:50

Know, I'm not sure why that would ever happen if you're in this profession. But no, I have not. I just I just heard while it may not be every day, it absolutely happens more often than not those those exact scenarios. I saw I heard that this is sort of what you have to deal with. There's always more to it than that. Right? There's always stuff going on and the veterinarians personal life, or with the clinic with the computers being down or somebody's out or whatever, there's always other stuff involved as well that that's just the medical side of having to deal with stuff.

22:25

So Oh, yeah, we didn't even talk about heading we got to the you know, yeah. So

22:29

but I think your point is, is is stuff is going on all the time. And it's an emotional roller coaster. Yep. For everybody.

22:36

Right Okay, so just try try to bear that in mind. And you know, try it at least apologize after if you're not your best then you maybe say things that are not kind and then the so the other the other bit is so that so that I guess the first thing is the rules bit of this is remember the roller coaster, right? Remember the roller coaster? And then the second bit is you're not the only one in the clinic. Correct? Right whether you're a client or event or staff member you're not the only one in the clinic. Other people are there to so you know like when you go to the if you ever if you go to the human doctor, although you might ever you might not although the three kids go right, right? You

23:32

mean me? Yeah, I don't go they tell me bad stuff. I just take the kids it's fine. It's exactly right. Likely how I roll is what I'm healthy to see the doctor.

23:42

But but when you do you like do you do you kind of like not try to look at the other people sitting in the waiting room.

23:51

I don't look at anybody You're right. I just I'm like no no I'm gonna look at my phone or my kids or whatever on their phone. I don't concentrate on anybody else nothing No, nothing's going on.

24:01

Yes, yes. It's the same thing right? Like I'm like I'm like I you know, kind of keep our eyes on the floor maybe I'll look at the TV Thank God they started putting TVs in the lobbies I'll look at my phone or like anything. I don't really look at the people next to me because I just feel like it's

24:17

Yeah, especially as an adult right. i My only really experienced as a pediatric and that's always, you know, a whole bunch of runny, runny things running around like everywhere. So so so I don't look any but as an adult, they're the MS are there for a healthy exam, which is not always the prep, pretty much never the case. Something bad's going on. Right? So you just don't want to be involved.

24:37

So Right. And so I just feel like it's a little bit of like an invasion of privacy, right? For sure. So the same thing kind of goes with the veterinary practice. Usually you're not the only one in the in the lobby. And you know that the dogs and the Catholic they're doing whatever right they're always looking at every thing. But you know, people are there for different reasons. And so just be cognizant of that. You know, and I guess that's my only thing because of that, because you don't want to be laughing and cutting up too much too loudly when someone is having a really bad situation with their pet in exam room three, right?

25:26

Yeah, most clinics don't have soundproof walls. They should probably, but most of them, most of them don't.

25:31

Yeah, yeah. And so you just want to be cognizant of that a little bit. Now, I'm not saying you got to be like, Debbie downer when you walk in. But, you know, just just remember, you know, there's other people there. And they may not be having the same day you are. And it also goes to if you lose yourself in the moment, and you can't keep it under control. Maybe you want to exit the premises a door, right? That's right. That's right. No one. No one needs to get that on him. So yeah, okay, so. So those are the rules. Remember, the roller coaster? Remember, you're not the only person there that day? And then there's, there's one more thing? Just one more? Well, unless you have one, like I didn't ask you if you had one.

26:25

I don't have one right now? Well, it depends. This is your last one. I think they're all good. I'm thinking maybe we should post them everywhere. Right? Just just normal, common sense kind of kind of stuff. So the biggest thing is that, you know, you're not the only one there. And that's not to be like, you know, you guys stopped being because the most important thing in that person's life is the health of their pet while they're there, and everybody understands that, however, try to have a little bit of room for other folks in there, too, just to make it easier for everybody. So anyways, moving on. What was your What was your final one?

26:59

My last one pertains to that situation that, like, just you were apparently gobsmacked that you heard about it in Newsweek?

27:09

Oh, yeah, I was, I was just shocked because the situation happened in a very northern state. And here I am in the middle of nowhere, Florida. Yeah, speaking about it. And I'm like, I get that the media is much more pervasive than ever before. But still, I'm hearing about a individual case, something that I don't know how to listen, I don't know the rules. I hadn't talked to the production team, how detailed we're gonna get into this. However, it let's just say it was something that happens more often than people realize that this situation presents itself. And it didn't go, you know, it never go great. And it doesn't this one went way sideways. But still, it's just one thing that happened up in, you know, way up north, and I'm reading about it way down south and I couldn't understand. Right? Why, like, why is it important to me? Why is it such a big deal? That I'm hearing about it, and then I worried for those folks who are having to deal with it on a, you know, the epicenter of the whole thing here. I was way outside of the lines hearing about it, worrying about it, right. And these folks in the North were having to deal with it on a day to day basis. And it was just strange to me, and worrisome.

28:22

Yeah, number one. I know everyone in the chat room was impressed that you were reading anything about the news? Hey, Goldstar.

28:29

Give me a break. What are you talking about? The chatroom sends me all kinds of emails privately says this says they're very proud. And I know that I'm keeping up with current events and everything. So yeah, sure. You're not shocked at all,

28:43

actually. So anyway, so this was a case where and this happened. You're right. This happens all the time, where someone took their pet in for an emergency situation. The bill was it doesn't matter if it was $1. Or if it was $20,000. It was too much the person didn't have the finances the financial wherewithal to pay for that. They were I think that there they there's no credit to be extended whether from a third party or from

29:13

try I think yeah, I think they were I think all avenues offered every avenue and it just sometimes it doesn't it doesn't have

29:19

it. So the choices the choices remaining were take the pet home, which wasn't feasible. Every pet owner knows that's not reasonable. Take your pet home and let him just be in pain. Yeah,

29:28

it was a life threatening,

29:30

it was hard to be sore, or make that hard decision to send that pet to heaven. Right. But then the clinic offered another option which was to surrender the pet and they would find another home right. And so the owner opted for surrendering the pet and then changed their mind. Apparently sometime later, so then they they went to the media You know, and and made many claims. But here's what's what's interesting. A you prepare yourself for emergencies with pets financially, right? There's insurance available these days etc. Also prevention. Preventive med is a lot cheaper. There's

30:20

a long way, right?

30:22

So when you're Yeah, go ahead, Jason.

30:25

I said sometimes you can't prevent someone running over your dog. And nobody understands that however, but you can prevent. There's so many vaccines and veterinarians are trained, like you mentioned, oh, by the way, you did you recognize your cat lost 30% of their weight? Oh my gosh, no, because they lost it slowly. And you didn't recognize because you're not paying attention to that, that's fine. But that's why you go to the vet to catch those things early before they get unmanageable.

30:47

So the importance of the annual exam is huge, right. But also, one of the things I want to talk about this is apparently what came out of this was because of all the media, somebody, Doc's those veterinarians,

31:03

what does that mean? Hold on? Can we can we? I see at this, this is Gerald, what is this guy talking about? I read that all I have no idea what that means do x x? What does that mean?

31:14

It means they put their personal addresses and information out on the internet.

31:21

And where did they get do x? Actually, this is way? Oh, I don't get it. Right. I don't know. I don't wanna say outed or whatever docs for the longest time. They just canceled them or whatever. Okay, great. Okay, it makes no sense. Anyway,

31:34

they doxed the veterinarians that work at that practice. And those veterinarians had their houses egged. Right. They had people parked in front of their homes, screen screaming at their home, like, these are veterinarians, right? I mean,

31:56

who every day, they're not going to work, like you said, to trying to help everybody and their pet go home happy, right. It just sometimes it didn't, doesn't work out. So Right. And they offered everything they could for the pet. And and in the end,

32:15

the pet survived. Like, it's not like they, they compelled euthanasia, or they said, take you and the dog you brought in here and get the heck out. They they relieve the pets suffering. They found them a new home, I guess. I mean, clearly, those are not people who hate animals. Right. Right. But so anyway, so I thought that was crazy. So I guess rule number three is don't don't throw eggs.

32:48

I mean, I don't know how to I don't know how to how to paraphrase that into it into a rule. That's just that's just poor behavior. Right? Very, very poor behavior. On one side, it doesn't make any sense.

33:01

It's just what is happening with that. I think that's just crazy town. Part of it

33:07

is is sort of how we live today with with the media able to do all this stuff. 35 years ago, it would have been over and done within three minutes, because nobody would read the paper six days later, right? So it's a little bit different today, we're all navigating a little bit different sort of society. However, that is still poor behavior on anyone's part.

33:26

There are avenues available if you're that unhappy with service you receive at a veterinary practice. You know, like me, we're licensed by the state, right? You can allege malpractice? I hate saying all of this on the podcast, but there are avenues available to find there. You have recourse other than egging someone's home. I'm like, what is that? I mean, what's where's the satisfaction there? Perhaps I've never egged anyone's home so I'm unaware of what I speak but I'm just thinking what?

34:01

Oh, I mean, some 13 year olds, you know, a some houses over here. So maybe they were just 13 year olds, but who knows?

34:07

I don't know. But that Oh, anyway, so that one that was a little bit and and the other thing if if, okay, so what do we have? We have? Remember the roller coaster, okay. There's something new behind every exam. And it's one

34:20

veterinarian dealing with all of those different emotions all at once and trying to provide the best customer service and medical advice for everybody. That's the roller coaster you're talking about? Not necessarily the individual who has the pet their their their own roller coaster but try to keep in mind everyone's not always at the same ups and downs, right? And maybe the opposite. Correct. So keep that in mind

34:41

and in the staff. And the staff like we shouldn't leave out the veterinary staff and the support staff right. Because many times they also develop that relationship with a pet and with an owner. So

34:56

if not more than the veterinarian they deal with them probably on a permit. Then it bases longer, right? A lot of other administrative stuff and they do a lot of stuff. So absolutely the staff,

35:05

so yeah, so staff and the vet and then. Okay, so remember the roller coaster. You're not the only one in the in the clinic, right? Don't throw a better

35:19

you better check yourself right? The second when you check yourself check yourself,

35:22

right? So remember the roller coaster? Better check yourself. And then don't throw eggs. Don't throw eggs. So I have one more bit of advice is kind of a heavy topic today for differential but them's the rules, right? Rules are heavy. Yeah, they can be right. Yeah. So one more thing is there is apparently a higher risk of suicide or lack of positive,

35:57

we are getting heavy well being

35:59

among veterinary professionals. And as a pet lover, you can actually be part of the solution to that problem by remembering the rules, okay. But also, if you notice that your veterinarian seems to be having a tougher time, because you know, because you, okay, there's some clients I see more often than some of my own extended family for God's sakes. If you know, something over you see something like that. Ask the your veterinarian or if you're uncomfortable doing that, ask your practice manager there at ask somebody about it. Because you may see those changes, too. If you notice that, you know, your veterinarian who's usually up and bubbly and fun, as most of us are, because we love what we do for a living. And if you notice that change, say something about it, don't don't just let it go by. Because clients clients have eyes and ears to and hearts. And so let's let's make sure that everyone is is helping to be part of that solution. Because I think a lot of times clients are left out of those conversations. For what what can they do? How can they contribute? You can contribute to your veterinary not becoming one more vet who has taken their life by remembering the rules, that then also recognizing if you see something, say something?

37:34

So I think I think that one more vet? You know, I'm sure there's a bunch of statistics out there, none of them are great. But I think part of that is goes hand in hand with what you said that the veterinarians and the entire animal care industry is there because they love pets, and part of part of loving pets is losing pets. It's just part of it. Right? So that and that that is because they have such empathy for the animals. It hits them hard, right? And so then there are people and then there are people so it's just right. And there are people they're not machines, there are people and so they it's hard to deal with the all the emotions. But all of this goes hand in hand. But but treat people with respect, treat him the way you would be treated. If you step out of line. Everybody does it. So I never have right but most everybody has stepped out of line at one point or another in their life. It goes a long way to just say hey, listen, I'm just gonna keep talking. It goes along with this. Hey, listen, man that my bad. I'm sorry. In almost every veterinarian, every veterinary clinic staff member, every animal care member will understand. Yep, I get it. I understand. I've we've all been there. Thank you so much. And then you move on. Right? But doesn't doesn't hurt do that. So

38:44

yeah, we're all human. So you just apologize and you make an error. And you try not to make that same error again. Right. So yeah, so So yeah. So that I guess that's our those are our rules.

38:56

Yep. Good rules. I think great rules follow, everybody will be happy. So yeah, remember to deal with stuff a lot better, right?

39:04

Yep. Yep. And we don't we don't. We're not saying to veterinarians are not strong enough or tough enough or whatever. We're just we just want to offer some background, I guess, information to clients who may or may not realize everything that goes on in the daily practice and how to deal with it.

39:27

Right now. I think that was the reason for another thing I don't understand is the TED Talk stuff. But I liked it. I watched it. I liked it. I should read it also. So I could make sure I understood everything but that most people don't understand it's not their fault. They just don't really understand what's going on because of their for their animal. And that's what they care about. And that's fine. Save a little 10% Maybe a very motion and stuff for for the people that are also there for other reasons. So there's a lot of stuff going on.

39:56

Yeah. So again, the link to the TED Talk that sort of ends I heard this episode is going to be in the show notes. So you can find it there. Take a minute. It's short as they always are. But no less informative. So yeah, so take a listen there. And otherwise, just remember them's the rules. That's the rules. All right. Well, that's all we have today for you guys. Also,

40:25

don't forget Dr. Jain is going on vacay Oh, yeah. All right. I don't know when this is coming out, but we'll leave it in a couple of days. Put them on getting ready. Get in the fight in the sun, baby. All right. Yes. Okay. So because that might hopefully because it remembers you and you get back.

40:48

That's called a valley and the roller coaster ride friends. Yeah. Big drop. That's right. So I am the soon to be vacationing Dr. Jenn

40:59

the vet. I'm always hard at work. Dr. Jason.

41:02

We will catch you guys on the next episode.

41:07

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